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[music]

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Well, it was Easter morning,
and you would've thought

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that the 12 nuns would be
preparing for Easter services;

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instead, they were climbing
into 12 fish barrels,

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trying to get smuggled
out of their convent.

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So, this entire scheme
was devised by a man

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named Martin Luther, the great
German Protestant reformer.

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He lived 1483-1546, and he
is one of the most prolific

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and influential men,
outside of the Bible,

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in the history of the world.

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The story is that he
was walking along, nearly struck

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by lightning, and he took it
as a revelation from God

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that God
was displeased with him.

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And so he then
committed his life

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to going into ministry
as a monk.

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He took a vow
of celibacy and poverty.

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He was a brilliant legal mind.

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And he drove himself almost mad
studying the Bible over and over

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and over, looking at all
of God's commands and decrees,

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and realizing how woefully
short he, in fact, fell.

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Now, this led
to severe depression,

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him spending hours in
the confessional with a priest,

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actually harming his own body,

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trying to pay penance
and to pay God back to atone

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for his sin,
by his own suffering.

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And then Martin Luther
had the most amazing moment.

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He was studying the Bible, and
he went to places like Habakkuk,

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which is quoted in Romans
and also in Galatians,

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where it says
that the righteous

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shall live by faith.

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And it dawned on him--it's like
the Holy Spirit dropped on him,

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and he realized, "I'm not saved
by my works and what I do.

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"I'm saved by Jesus and faith
in his works, his sinless life,

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his substitutionary death,
his bodily resurrection."

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And that was, in some regards,
the real beginning

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of what we now call
the Protestant Reformation.

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And he took his convictions
and nailed them to a door

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in a place called Wittenberg,
and it was the 95 Theses,

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as they are called, and it was
kind of like a bulletin board

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or a Facebook wall today.

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It's where you
would post something

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that you wanted
others to discuss.

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And that led to this massive
alteration in how Christians

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were viewing the salvation
that God gives,

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and this is all in the context
of a time in history

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with Johannes Gutenberg
and the printing press,

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and Copernicus, and Galileo.

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It's this season of massive,
global change, and Martin Luther

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is on the forefront
of that, spiritually.

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And one of the things
that he concludes

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is that marriage
is a good thing,

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and children are a blessing.

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And in that time, the basic
teaching of the Catholic church

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was primarily that the best life
of all was the life of a monk

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or a nun, to be celibate,
and to give oneself to poverty,

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and to live in simplicity,
and that marriage and children,

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well, those were
sort of base instincts

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and for those who couldn't
withhold their passions

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and were, to some degree,
spiritually less mature.

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Maybe they needed
to choose that course,

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but the holiest people
of all would be chaste virgins

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for their lives,
living in poverty,

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devoted only to God.

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And Martin Luther
decided that's not true,

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and he started
reading the Bible,

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and he decided,

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"I'm going to quit being a monk.
I'm going to go enjoy my life."

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And he wrote a little tract
called, "On Monastic Vows,"

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and in it he renounced his vows,
and he encouraged other monks

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and nuns to renounce
their vows, and for a priest

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to leave the priesthood, and
for nuns to leave the convent.

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Well, this tract found its way
into one particular convent,

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where there were
a dozen nuns,

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most of them young,
and they got their hands

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on this little tract
from Martin Luther,

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and they started reading,

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"It's a good thing
to get married.

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It's a good thing
to make babies."

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And they decided,
"It's a good thing for us."

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So, they wrote a letter
to the great Martin Luther,

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basically asking, "Please
break us out of the convent,"

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which was illegal.

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And then Martin Luther devised
this scheme where a man

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who was supposed
to be delivering food

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into the nuns on Easter,
brought with him

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12 empty barrels and snuggled--
and snuggled--wrong word.

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[congregation laughing]

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This is not a Mormon story
with polygamy.

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[congregation laughing]

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He didn't snuggle 12 women.

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He smuggled 12 women
out of the convent.

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(Don't worry, the Holy Spirit
will show up, eventually,

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and it'll get better.)

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He smuggled 12 nuns
out of the convent.

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Now, many of them
went back to their families.

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The other women were quickly,
generally speaking,

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married off,
with one exception.

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There was one woman
that no one would marry.

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Her name was
Katharina von Bora,

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and she, at one point,
actually was engaged to a man

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that Martin Luther
had connected her with,

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and he, at the last minute,
backed out.

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The reasons we find,
historically, are many.

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She was
unattractive and unpleasant.

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Those would be
the two primary reasons.

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Martin Luther
said she was stubborn,

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and she had pride.

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Let's just say
she was a colt

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that was hard
to get a saddle on.

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That was Katharina von Bora.

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And so she was finally
brash and bold enough

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that she actually approached
the great Martin Luther,

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and she told him,

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"You know, my mom died
when I was about 6.

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"I went into the convent
when I was around 9 or 10.

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"I became a nun when I was 16.

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"Now, as an adult woman,

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"I have read
your biblical teaching.

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"I've renounced
my life as a nun.

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"I have fled from the convent,
and you owe me a husband;

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"and if you
don't find me a husband,

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since you're single,
you're going to be my husband."

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That's pretty bold
for a gal in any age,

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but especially,
especially in that day.

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Martin Luther said, quote,

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"Good Lord, they will never
thrust a wife on me."

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He did not want to marry.

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He was 40 years old
and a virgin--

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the original 40-year-old virgin,
the great Martin Luther.

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No one would marry Katharina.

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And he was not attracted
to her or interested in her,

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but on June 13, 1525,
he basically asked her--

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I think, in part,
so she would leave him alone,

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"Will you marry me?"
She said yes.

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They were married
that day, quick.

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His friends wept bitterly.

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[congregation laughing]

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Some of you go, "This
is sounding very familiar."

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When they came to the great
Martin Luther and asked him,

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"Why did you marry her?"

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he said, quote, "To spite
the devil," which is the least

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romantic reason given
in the history of the world,

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why one man
would marry one woman.

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It's theologically correct,
but no woman wants to hear that.

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And then she got pregnant,
and this was quite a scandal,

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because there was a bit
of an old wives' tale

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and folklore in Germany
that the Antichrist would come

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from union between a rebellious
nun and a renegade monk.

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So she got pregnant,
and everybody was thinking,

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"Here comes
the bride of Chucky.

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This is going to be
the end of the world."

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She did give birth,
and they ended up going on

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to have six children--
three boys, three girls--

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and their 13-year-old daughter
tragically died,

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and they write of this as
a devastating season for them.

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They were very socially awkward,
because they'd not been

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around members
of the opposite sex, since,

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well, for her,
since she was a little girl.

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So, the stories are told that
she would be sitting with him,

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as a married couple,
and not have any idea

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how to talk to a man, so she
would just throw stuff out like,

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"Who's the King of Prussia?"

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Just trying--
and he would be like,

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"What is this weird woman,
addicted to Jeopardy,

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who I am married to?"

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She would just throw out
these random statements.

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And they were
very socially awkward.

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And when she moved
into their home,

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it was a complete
bachelor pad.

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It was an old monastery,
and guys were coming and going,

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and she'd have up to 100 people
over for dinner a night,

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because the Reformation was sort
of exploding out of their home.

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And he was such a nasty guy.
He really was a bachelor.

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He laid in straw, slept in it,
but hadn't changed it for years.

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Yeah, nasty.

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And so she cleaned up his house,
threw out a bunch of stuff--

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I'm assuming burned
the rest--and she turned it

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into a lovely home,
and then she planted a garden,

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because he had a horrible diet,
destroyed his digestive tract.

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He had legendary flatulence.

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Actually, there are
many stories in the Reformation

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just connected
to that particular fact,

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that I would share
with you, but we won't.

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And she was
a bit of a naturopath,

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so she started
growing vegetables

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and helping him
to heal physically.

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And do you know
what happened, over time?

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They really built
an amazing friendship.

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And you don't get this
from reading

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the theology of Martin Luther.

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He's usually just railing
against the pope,

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which is fun, but--

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[congregation laughing]

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But when you read
their letters--and I think

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there's a few dozen
remaining letters

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that we have between them--
the tone, over the years,

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gets really affectionate
and sweet.

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There are occasions, too,
where she saved his life.

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She had a dream that he
was going out to preach,

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and men were lying
in wait to murder him,

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and so she told him, "Honey,
I don't think you should go,"

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and he didn't go,
because he trusted

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the Holy Spirit in his wife.
And he got a letter, saying,

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"It's a good thing
you didn't come.

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It was all true.
You would've been killed."

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She became
a great confidante and ally.

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As he's writing letters,
and books, and treatises,

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oftentimes,
she was literally

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just sitting
at his side as his friend.

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And so she's included
in some of his correspondences

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to others, you know,

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"Katharina's here.
She says hi."

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They were friends.

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In the letters, he calls
her Lord Katy, dear rib,

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the empress, my true love,
my sweetheart, gracious lady,

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wise woman, doctor,
your grace, holy lady,

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dear wife, and a gift of God.

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He's got a nickname for her.
I call Grace, "Beauty."

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That's what I've called
her for years.

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He had a lot of
nicknames for his lovely wife.

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And what I love
about her, as well,

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is she had a really strong
sense of humor,

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irony, and sarcasm,
which was necessary

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for a big personality
like Martin Luther.

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So, once in a while,
he would start to pick at her

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a little bit, and she would
just look at him and say,

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"Obviously, you didn't pray
about that sermon

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you're about to preach,"

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and she would really
sort of hold her ground.

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And there was one occasion,
where he would get

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very melancholy,
very depressed.

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He would go into serious
bouts with depression,

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and she knew
how to snap him out of it.

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One occasion, the story
is told that he was away

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and returning home,
and she dressed in all black

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like a mourning widow,
and opened the door,

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and he was sort of shocked.

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And she was standing there,
and he asked her, "Who died?"

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00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,125
And she said, "Well,
if the great Martin Luther

241
00:11:32,167 --> 00:11:35,917
is this depressed, I just
assumed that God has died."

242
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,708
She had a flare
for the dramatic

243
00:11:37,792 --> 00:11:41,125
and the comedic.

244
00:11:41,167 --> 00:11:42,625
And what happened
to Martin Luther

245
00:11:42,667 --> 00:11:45,125
is that what started out as,

246
00:11:45,167 --> 00:11:47,500
"We're not really friends.
We don't really like each other.

247
00:11:47,583 --> 00:11:49,125
"I'm not really
interested in her,

248
00:11:49,167 --> 00:11:51,083
"but I kind of need
to marry her,

249
00:11:51,167 --> 00:11:53,333
because I did jailbreak her
out of a convent,"

250
00:11:53,375 --> 00:11:56,125
turned out to be one
of the most glorious marriages,

251
00:11:56,167 --> 00:11:58,875
outside of the Bible,
in the history of the world.

252
00:11:58,958 --> 00:12:01,583
I would go so far
as to say that their marriage

253
00:12:01,667 --> 00:12:04,708
is the most important marriage,
the most influential marriage

254
00:12:04,792 --> 00:12:07,833
in the history of the world,
outside of the Bible,

255
00:12:07,875 --> 00:12:10,792
because now the view
of Christian maturity

256
00:12:10,833 --> 00:12:12,917
was a husband
and wife loving one another,

257
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,875
and they
had a friendship in a day

258
00:12:14,958 --> 00:12:16,833
when marriage
was primarily functional.

259
00:12:16,875 --> 00:12:20,125
And as I've read and studied
Martin Luther on this issue,

260
00:12:20,167 --> 00:12:22,792
and as Gracie and I were working
on this book together,

261
00:12:22,833 --> 00:12:26,000
she was reading the biographies
of Katharina von Bora,

262
00:12:26,083 --> 00:12:28,417
and I was reading the
biographies of Martin Luther,

263
00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:31,500
and we were studying
together and sharing notes.

264
00:12:31,583 --> 00:12:33,583
But one of the things
that we noticed

265
00:12:33,667 --> 00:12:35,833
is that through the course
of their life together,

266
00:12:35,875 --> 00:12:37,500
his thinking about marriage
and his teaching

267
00:12:37,583 --> 00:12:39,333
on marriage changed.

268
00:12:39,375 --> 00:12:41,833
It went from, "Well,
it just exists to keep us

269
00:12:41,875 --> 00:12:44,000
from carnal passions and to
give us legitimate offspring,"

270
00:12:44,083 --> 00:12:46,833
to it really being
about friendship.

271
00:12:46,875 --> 00:12:49,292
And the laws were changed,
and the view of marriage

272
00:12:49,333 --> 00:12:51,833
was changed,
and life, as we know it,

273
00:12:51,875 --> 00:12:54,375
regarding a healthy biblical
view of Christian marriage can,

274
00:12:54,458 --> 00:12:58,417
in large part,
be attributed to the Luthers.

275
00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:01,167
And here is a statement
that he gives a little later

276
00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:05,000
in his life about his wife.

277
00:13:05,083 --> 00:13:08,167
"There is no more lovely,
friendly, and charming

278
00:13:08,250 --> 00:13:13,708
relationship, communion, or
company than a good marriage."

279
00:13:13,792 --> 00:13:16,708
What he's talking
about is friendship.

280
00:13:16,792 --> 00:13:18,875
This sermon is titled,
"Friend with Benefits."

281
00:13:18,958 --> 00:13:21,542
Unlike the culture, we don't
have friends with benefits--

282
00:13:21,625 --> 00:13:24,125
one friend, married friend,

283
00:13:24,167 --> 00:13:26,417
with non-medical
or dental benefits.

284
00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:28,083
That's what we're talking about.

285
00:13:28,167 --> 00:13:30,208
And when it comes to marriages,

286
00:13:30,292 --> 00:13:32,292
Grace and I
were working on this book.

287
00:13:32,333 --> 00:13:36,125
We sort of hit an idea
that has been revolutionary

288
00:13:36,167 --> 00:13:37,417
for our marriage.

289
00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:39,417
As we've shared it,
it's really, I think,

290
00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:42,083
been an encouragement to others,
and so we're really excited

291
00:13:42,167 --> 00:13:43,667
to share it with you.

292
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:45,667
Marriage is about friendship.

293
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:48,833
It's about a lot of things,
but it's about friendship.

294
00:13:48,917 --> 00:13:52,333
And as we were studying for this
series, and campaign, and book,

295
00:13:52,375 --> 00:13:56,125
we read all or part of
187 books on marriage;

296
00:13:56,167 --> 00:13:58,292
most of them Christian.

297
00:13:58,333 --> 00:14:01,750
Not one had a chapter or a
significant portion of a chapter

298
00:14:01,833 --> 00:14:03,792
dedicated to friendship.

299
00:14:03,833 --> 00:14:07,333
It's is as--it is, rather, as if
all the Christians went to

300
00:14:07,417 --> 00:14:10,042
the Bible and looked at all
the verses on marriage,

301
00:14:10,125 --> 00:14:12,542
which is wonderful, but then
skipped all the verses

302
00:14:12,625 --> 00:14:15,292
on friendship,
in places like Proverbs,

303
00:14:15,333 --> 00:14:17,500
as if friendship and marriage
were in altogether

304
00:14:17,583 --> 00:14:20,292
different categories
and unrelated.

305
00:14:20,333 --> 00:14:22,667
I started studying
it historically.

306
00:14:22,750 --> 00:14:25,625
I couldn't find a major
theological work written on

307
00:14:25,667 --> 00:14:30,000
friendship of any kind,
all the way back to the 1100s,

308
00:14:30,083 --> 00:14:34,167
when a monk wrote a commentary
on Cicero's work on friendship.

309
00:14:34,208 --> 00:14:36,833
Going back, there's only been
one theologian in the history of

310
00:14:36,875 --> 00:14:39,833
the church who's done any really
robust work on friendship.

311
00:14:39,917 --> 00:14:42,417
That was Augustine
in his "Confessions,"

312
00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:45,417
in about the fifth century.

313
00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:48,333
And so we started
talking about it.

314
00:14:48,375 --> 00:14:50,333
We've come to the conclusion
that friendship is

315
00:14:50,375 --> 00:14:53,167
incredibly important
for our marriage and yours.

316
00:14:53,208 --> 00:14:55,458
John Gottman, a sociologist
and researcher, who,

317
00:14:55,500 --> 00:15:00,125
with more than 90% success rate,
can predict divorce,

318
00:15:00,167 --> 00:15:03,792
says that men and women
want the exact same thing.

319
00:15:03,833 --> 00:15:05,333
Men and women
are very different,

320
00:15:05,417 --> 00:15:08,208
but there's one thing
that they hold in common,

321
00:15:08,292 --> 00:15:12,208
and that is by 70%, the most
important thing to men and women

322
00:15:12,292 --> 00:15:17,833
is that their spouse be their
nearest and dearest friend.

323
00:15:17,875 --> 00:15:20,958
It is possible to have
a great theology of marriage

324
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,250
and not a friendship.

325
00:15:23,333 --> 00:15:25,542
It's possible to know all
the verses on headship,

326
00:15:25,625 --> 00:15:28,042
and submission,
and roles, and gender,

327
00:15:28,125 --> 00:15:30,542
and not have a friendship.

328
00:15:30,625 --> 00:15:33,750
We want you to believe all
that the Bible has to say about

329
00:15:33,833 --> 00:15:37,417
marriage, and in your marriage,
we want you to be friends.

330
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:41,083
This starts when you're single:
only dating someone who's

331
00:15:41,167 --> 00:15:44,125
friends with Jesus, and then
becoming friends with them,

332
00:15:44,167 --> 00:15:48,333
and building that relationship
on those two friendships.

333
00:15:48,375 --> 00:15:51,250
Augustine defines friendship
in this way in his book,

334
00:15:51,333 --> 00:15:53,333
"The Confessions."

335
00:15:53,375 --> 00:15:56,000
"It is to make conversation,
to share a joke,

336
00:15:56,083 --> 00:15:58,292
"to perform mutual
acts of kindness,

337
00:15:58,333 --> 00:16:01,292
to read together
well-written books--"

338
00:16:01,333 --> 00:16:03,375
what else would you expect
from a theologian--

339
00:16:03,458 --> 00:16:06,333
"to share in trifling
and in serious matters,

340
00:16:06,375 --> 00:16:09,292
"to disagree,
though without animosity,

341
00:16:09,333 --> 00:16:11,708
"just as a person
debates with himself.

342
00:16:11,792 --> 00:16:13,875
"And in the very rarity
of disagreement,

343
00:16:13,958 --> 00:16:16,292
"to find the salt
of normal harmony,

344
00:16:16,333 --> 00:16:19,333
"to teach each other something,
or to learn from one another,

345
00:16:19,375 --> 00:16:22,250
"to long with impatience
for those absent,

346
00:16:22,333 --> 00:16:25,833
to welcome them with
gladness on their arrival."

347
00:16:25,875 --> 00:16:28,292
Let me talk to you
about friendship.

348
00:16:28,333 --> 00:16:31,333
God is one God,
three persons.

349
00:16:31,375 --> 00:16:32,625
We call it the Trinity.

350
00:16:32,667 --> 00:16:35,833
Another way to look at it is
that God is a friend

351
00:16:35,875 --> 00:16:38,333
and has friends.

352
00:16:38,375 --> 00:16:43,333
God Himself is
a friend and has friends,

353
00:16:43,375 --> 00:16:48,750
and God makes us in his image
and likeness for friendship with

354
00:16:48,833 --> 00:16:51,875
him and with one another.

355
00:16:51,958 --> 00:16:56,500
That's why, in Genesis 2:18,
before sin even enters

356
00:16:56,542 --> 00:17:00,417
the world, God declares
one thing to not be good.

357
00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:06,083
God says to the man, "It is not
good for a man to be alone."

358
00:17:06,167 --> 00:17:08,917
Because the man has God above
him and creation beneath him,

359
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,292
but he doesn't have a partner,
a friend alongside of him

360
00:17:13,333 --> 00:17:15,917
to journey through life with.

361
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,333
And so God's answer is a wife.

362
00:17:19,417 --> 00:17:22,500
And so the first friendship,
the first human friendship

363
00:17:22,583 --> 00:17:28,167
in the history of the world was
between a husband and a wife.

364
00:17:28,208 --> 00:17:32,833
Picking this up in
the Song of Solomon 5:16,

365
00:17:32,875 --> 00:17:34,958
the wife says it this way.

366
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,208
She gives this amazing
definition of friendship.

367
00:17:38,292 --> 00:17:42,417
She says, quote, "This is my
lover, and this is my friend."

368
00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:46,333
I can't think of a more
beautiful definition of

369
00:17:46,417 --> 00:17:50,333
marriage: lover and friend.

370
00:17:50,417 --> 00:17:54,333
Or to use our language:
friend with benefits.

371
00:17:54,417 --> 00:18:00,833
For the woman, she sees her
husband as her lover and friend.

372
00:18:00,875 --> 00:18:04,917
How's your friendship,
if you're married or engaged?

373
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,833
On a scale of one to ten,

374
00:18:06,917 --> 00:18:08,833
how would you rate yourself
as a friend?

375
00:18:08,917 --> 00:18:12,833
How would you rate
your friendship?

376
00:18:12,875 --> 00:18:16,833
What can happen is sometimes
those who have good intentions

377
00:18:16,875 --> 00:18:20,208
will go to the Bible and make
a list of all the things he's

378
00:18:20,292 --> 00:18:23,208
supposed to do, and a list of
all the things she's supposed

379
00:18:23,292 --> 00:18:26,083
to do, and you try to do
everything on the list.

380
00:18:26,167 --> 00:18:27,333
But here's the truth.

381
00:18:27,417 --> 00:18:29,250
If you're not friends,
it's very sad.

382
00:18:29,333 --> 00:18:34,000
It may be,
quote/unquote, "biblical,"

383
00:18:34,083 --> 00:18:38,083
but it's not reflective of
the loving friendship that

384
00:18:38,167 --> 00:18:41,833
the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
have with one another.

385
00:18:41,875 --> 00:18:45,542
We want you to work on your
friendship, by the grace of God,

386
00:18:45,625 --> 00:18:48,042
first with Jesus
and then with one another,

387
00:18:48,125 --> 00:18:50,042
and we want you
to start to hear,

388
00:18:50,125 --> 00:18:53,875
when the Bible talks about love,
that another way to look at

389
00:18:53,958 --> 00:18:55,542
that is friendship.

390
00:18:55,625 --> 00:18:58,250
So, the classic line that
most Christians are aware of,

391
00:18:58,333 --> 00:19:01,958
"Husbands--" what-- "your wives
as Christ loves the church."

392
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,750
"Love."

393
00:19:03,833 --> 00:19:07,042
And we can hear certain verses
and certain words so often that,

394
00:19:07,125 --> 00:19:10,292
all of a sudden, we don't
really hear them anymore.

395
00:19:10,333 --> 00:19:12,542
And that word could be
translated in this way:

396
00:19:12,625 --> 00:19:16,417
"Husbands, be friends
with your wives,

397
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:19,958
like Christ is a good
friend to the church."

398
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,333
Sounds different, doesn't it?

399
00:19:22,417 --> 00:19:25,083
Men, let me submit to you
this is how your wife

400
00:19:25,167 --> 00:19:26,917
hears the word "love."

401
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,208
In the context of marriage,
she hears it as

402
00:19:29,292 --> 00:19:30,875
"near and dear friend."

403
00:19:30,958 --> 00:19:34,667
And friends, this is why
also emotional adultery is

404
00:19:34,708 --> 00:19:36,750
so treasonous and treacherous.

405
00:19:36,833 --> 00:19:38,458
Do you know what
emotional adultery is?

406
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:42,667
A close friendship with
someone of the opposite sex.

407
00:19:42,708 --> 00:19:45,958
Your nearest and dearest
friend, your first human friend,

408
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,208
your closest friend,
your best friend

409
00:19:49,292 --> 00:19:51,083
is supposed to be your spouse.

410
00:19:51,167 --> 00:19:53,083
God said it's not
good to be alone,

411
00:19:53,167 --> 00:19:54,500
and his answer was marriage.

412
00:19:54,542 --> 00:19:56,292
Now, what happens in our day?

413
00:19:56,333 --> 00:19:58,667
Friendship is
a completely overused word.

414
00:19:58,750 --> 00:20:01,292
You go to Facebook, you've
got a lot of friends.

415
00:20:01,333 --> 00:20:02,542
No, you don't.

416
00:20:02,625 --> 00:20:05,792
They don't all get a kazoo and
show up at your birthday party,

417
00:20:05,833 --> 00:20:08,458
and, you know, know all the
intimate details of your life.

418
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:11,167
We use the word in a way
that is too cavalier.

419
00:20:11,208 --> 00:20:13,958
Let's look at the life of Jesus.

420
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,167
In John 15, Jesus calls
his disciples his friends.

421
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:20,083
Jesus says that he lays down
his life for his friends.

422
00:20:20,167 --> 00:20:23,875
So, to some regard, anyone who's
received Jesus as God and Lord

423
00:20:23,958 --> 00:20:25,583
is a friend of Jesus.

424
00:20:25,667 --> 00:20:27,583
But if we look at
Jesus' earthly life,

425
00:20:27,667 --> 00:20:30,792
the truth is he only had really
three near and dear friends:

426
00:20:30,833 --> 00:20:33,250
Peter, James, and John.

427
00:20:33,333 --> 00:20:35,250
They're there
at the Mount of Transfiguration.

428
00:20:35,333 --> 00:20:37,042
They're there
at the Garden of Gethsemane.

429
00:20:37,125 --> 00:20:39,458
They're there for the most
intimate moments of Jesus' life.

430
00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:42,667
They have
privileged access to him.

431
00:20:42,708 --> 00:20:45,625
And so we can learn from
the life of Jesus that we

432
00:20:45,667 --> 00:20:49,167
should be friendly toward
all and friends with a few,

433
00:20:49,250 --> 00:20:51,583
because a friendship
is expensive.

434
00:20:51,667 --> 00:20:54,208
It takes money, time,
energy, emotion.

435
00:20:54,292 --> 00:20:55,792
You can't have tons of friends.

436
00:20:55,833 --> 00:20:57,667
Some of you are
very extroverted,

437
00:20:57,750 --> 00:21:00,500
or you're in helping professions
like counselors, or teachers,

438
00:21:00,583 --> 00:21:03,667
or pastors, and you might think,
"I have a lot of friends."

439
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:05,167
No, you don't.

440
00:21:05,208 --> 00:21:08,000
You have a lot of relationships,
but not all those relationships

441
00:21:08,083 --> 00:21:09,500
are friendships.

442
00:21:09,542 --> 00:21:14,583
A friendship is a specific
kind of relationship.

443
00:21:14,667 --> 00:21:16,417
You can only have a few friends.

444
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:18,667
Jesus had three.

445
00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:22,000
Your first friend
has to be your spouse,

446
00:21:22,042 --> 00:21:26,000
and maybe then a few people,
whom your spouse agrees,

447
00:21:26,042 --> 00:21:28,667
are holy and helpful,
and you can be in community

448
00:21:28,708 --> 00:21:32,250
as friends with them.

449
00:21:32,333 --> 00:21:34,833
And some of you would
say, "That's what I want.

450
00:21:34,917 --> 00:21:36,250
I want a friendship."

451
00:21:36,333 --> 00:21:37,750
But let me say this.

452
00:21:37,833 --> 00:21:40,042
People can walk into
the church and judge everyone:

453
00:21:40,125 --> 00:21:41,333
"They're not very friendly."

454
00:21:41,417 --> 00:21:43,167
Walk into Community Group,
"not very friendly."

455
00:21:43,208 --> 00:21:44,875
Walk through life, "People
aren't very friendly.

456
00:21:44,958 --> 00:21:46,167
I don't have any friends."

457
00:21:46,250 --> 00:21:50,542
Here's the key to having
friends: being friendly.

458
00:21:50,625 --> 00:21:53,375
I've got a verse.

459
00:21:53,458 --> 00:21:55,625
I don't write the mail.
I just deliver it.

460
00:21:55,667 --> 00:22:00,500
Proverbs 18:24 says, "A man
who has friends must himself

461
00:22:00,583 --> 00:22:02,708
be friendly."

462
00:22:02,792 --> 00:22:06,958
I've never seen
a friendly person lonely.

463
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,042
I've seen
a bitter person lonely.

464
00:22:10,125 --> 00:22:13,167
I've seen a judgmental,
self-righteous person lonely.

465
00:22:13,208 --> 00:22:16,667
I've never seen
a friendly person lonely.

466
00:22:16,750 --> 00:22:19,625
If you want to have friends,
learn to be friendly.

467
00:22:19,667 --> 00:22:22,292
If you don't feel that your
spouse is a good friend,

468
00:22:22,333 --> 00:22:26,292
don't use this as an opportunity
to point out their failures,

469
00:22:26,333 --> 00:22:31,417
but ask them and God, "How
could I be a better friend?"

470
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:35,583
and see if they don't respond in
kind by being a friend to you.

471
00:22:35,667 --> 00:22:38,542
Spend the rest of our time
talking about friendship.

472
00:22:38,625 --> 00:22:40,250
Hugely important.

473
00:22:40,333 --> 00:22:43,167
And in our day, where we talk
about community, and isolation,

474
00:22:43,250 --> 00:22:45,667
and connectivity, what we're
really talking about

475
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:47,833
is friendship.

476
00:22:47,917 --> 00:22:50,500
So, I've got an acronym for you.

477
00:22:50,542 --> 00:22:53,292
We'll start with fruitful,

478
00:22:53,333 --> 00:22:57,333
that your marital friendship
is to be fruitful.

479
00:22:57,417 --> 00:23:01,083
God says it this way to our
first parents in Genesis 1:28.

480
00:23:01,167 --> 00:23:03,542
"God said to them, 'Be--'" What?

481
00:23:03,625 --> 00:23:06,292
You know this was coming--
"'fruitful and multiply,

482
00:23:06,333 --> 00:23:08,292
fill the earth, subdue
it, and have dominion.'"

483
00:23:08,333 --> 00:23:10,708
God looks at the couple.
He says, "Be fruitful."

484
00:23:10,792 --> 00:23:13,250
So, the marriage relationship,
like everything else,

485
00:23:13,333 --> 00:23:15,542
exists to the glory of God.

486
00:23:15,625 --> 00:23:19,125
So, the primary function of
the marriage is not your glory

487
00:23:19,167 --> 00:23:22,750
or their glory, but his
glory in both of you.

488
00:23:22,833 --> 00:23:26,083
And the marriage exists to
have fruitful multiplication.

489
00:23:26,167 --> 00:23:29,208
This can include having
children or adopting children.

490
00:23:29,292 --> 00:23:31,208
This includes culture making.

491
00:23:31,292 --> 00:23:35,708
This includes living lives
together that are fruitful.

492
00:23:35,792 --> 00:23:38,708
They are effective,

493
00:23:38,792 --> 00:23:43,500
that they produce
God-glorifying results,

494
00:23:43,542 --> 00:23:45,417
that the world is
a better place,

495
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:47,208
and that people are better loved

496
00:23:47,292 --> 00:23:50,667
because of your
God-glorifying friendship.

497
00:23:50,708 --> 00:23:52,667
See, God wants you
to open your home.

498
00:23:52,708 --> 00:23:54,333
God wants you to do ministry.

499
00:23:54,417 --> 00:23:55,875
God wants you to have children.

500
00:23:55,958 --> 00:23:58,667
God wants you to raise those
children to glorify him.

501
00:23:58,708 --> 00:24:00,958
God wants you to lead
a Community Group.

502
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,208
God wants you to counsel
others, singles and couples.

503
00:24:04,292 --> 00:24:06,625
God wants you to learn from
the sins you've committed

504
00:24:06,667 --> 00:24:09,083
and the sins that have been
committed against you,

505
00:24:09,167 --> 00:24:12,208
so that you can be fruitful
in bringing the gospel of

506
00:24:12,292 --> 00:24:14,667
Jesus Christ to bear in
the lives of others.

507
00:24:14,708 --> 00:24:16,542
God wants you to be fruitful.

508
00:24:16,625 --> 00:24:19,208
And marriages that exist
for the glory of God

509
00:24:19,292 --> 00:24:21,125
are the happiest of all.

510
00:24:21,167 --> 00:24:23,500
Marriages that exist solely
for their own pleasure

511
00:24:23,542 --> 00:24:26,125
are the most miserable of all.

512
00:24:26,167 --> 00:24:28,667
Number two, it's to be
reciprocal; meaning,

513
00:24:28,750 --> 00:24:32,042
you both need to work
on your friendship.

514
00:24:32,125 --> 00:24:35,542
If you have a marriage in
which one person is unfriendly,

515
00:24:35,625 --> 00:24:37,833
and the other person
is unfriendly,

516
00:24:37,875 --> 00:24:39,292
do you know what you get?

517
00:24:39,333 --> 00:24:41,542
Conflict and coldness.

518
00:24:41,625 --> 00:24:44,500
If you have one person that is
unfriendly and one person

519
00:24:44,542 --> 00:24:48,917
that is friendly, you get
selfishness and sadness.

520
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,208
If you have two people
who are friendly,

521
00:24:51,292 --> 00:24:54,667
you get love and laughter.

522
00:24:54,750 --> 00:24:58,292
And some of you may say, "Well,
my spouse is not very friendly."

523
00:24:58,333 --> 00:25:00,875
Go first.

524
00:25:01,875 --> 00:25:03,292
Go first.

525
00:25:03,333 --> 00:25:06,292
Be a good friend and see
if, in the grace of God,

526
00:25:06,333 --> 00:25:08,333
they don't become
a better friend.

527
00:25:08,375 --> 00:25:10,333
It has to be reciprocal, though.

528
00:25:10,375 --> 00:25:14,333
You need to both be devoted
to working on your friendship.

529
00:25:14,417 --> 00:25:17,708
And how, oftentimes, even when
we're having struggles in our

530
00:25:17,792 --> 00:25:21,250
relationship, we get all
of our friends involved.

531
00:25:21,333 --> 00:25:23,917
So, we'll call them, e-mail
them, text them, invite them in,

532
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,833
want them to take our side,
or maybe even seek counsel,

533
00:25:26,917 --> 00:25:30,042
but at the end of the day, are
you talking to your spouse?

534
00:25:30,125 --> 00:25:31,542
Are you working on
your friendship?

535
00:25:31,625 --> 00:25:33,833
Are you drawing one another out?

536
00:25:33,917 --> 00:25:36,458
Are you building that nearest,
dearest friendship

537
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:40,000
first that God gave?

538
00:25:40,083 --> 00:25:43,458
It has to be reciprocal.

539
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:48,417
I dare you to answer this
question for your spouse.

540
00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:52,958
"How good of a friend
have I been?"

541
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,667
I dare you to ask them
this dangerous question.

542
00:25:57,750 --> 00:26:01,625
"On a scale of one to ten, ten
being I'm the best friend ever,

543
00:26:01,667 --> 00:26:04,750
"one being your
life is very hard,

544
00:26:04,833 --> 00:26:09,750
how good of a friend
have I been?"

545
00:26:09,833 --> 00:26:13,292
You can get overwhelmed
when it comes to marriage.

546
00:26:13,333 --> 00:26:15,000
Where do we start?

547
00:26:15,083 --> 00:26:17,333
Communication, family of
origins, abuse issue,

548
00:26:17,417 --> 00:26:19,250
budgeting, scheduling?

549
00:26:19,333 --> 00:26:21,917
Do we work on our theology?

550
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,167
Where do we start?

551
00:26:24,208 --> 00:26:27,333
Here's where you
start: friendship.

552
00:26:27,417 --> 00:26:30,458
And everything else will
work itself out in time,

553
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:33,333
by the grace of God, if
the two of you together are

554
00:26:33,417 --> 00:26:40,333
reciprocating intentional
effort to build your friendship.

555
00:26:40,375 --> 00:26:43,333
Now, what I often hear
from couples is,

556
00:26:43,417 --> 00:26:49,208
"Well, but the problem is
we've fallen out of love."

557
00:26:49,292 --> 00:26:53,500
People don't fall out of love.

558
00:26:53,583 --> 00:26:58,250
They may fall out of repentance,
but they don't fall out of love.

559
00:26:58,333 --> 00:27:00,500
And people will say
things like that

560
00:27:00,583 --> 00:27:02,333
because they want to
abdicate themselves

561
00:27:02,417 --> 00:27:04,375
of their responsibility
to love their spouse.

562
00:27:04,458 --> 00:27:07,042
"Oh, well, if you're not feeling
loving, what can you do?"

563
00:27:07,125 --> 00:27:11,458
It's another way of
saying God's a liar,

564
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:17,333
because God says we can
even love our enemies.

565
00:27:17,417 --> 00:27:21,000
And the love that we have for
our enemies is not a love that

566
00:27:21,083 --> 00:27:24,667
resides in us, but a love that
resides in God and comes to us

567
00:27:24,708 --> 00:27:26,667
and through us.

568
00:27:26,750 --> 00:27:29,542
And even when we're not feeling
particularly friendly toward our

569
00:27:29,625 --> 00:27:33,250
spouse, we could still love them
with the love that God gives.

570
00:27:33,333 --> 00:27:35,667
I'll give you a few reasons.

571
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:37,458
Well, I'll start
in Proverbs 4:23.

572
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:39,333
Some of you will
say things like,

573
00:27:39,375 --> 00:27:41,292
"I just want to
follow my heart."

574
00:27:41,333 --> 00:27:43,708
Don't.

575
00:27:43,792 --> 00:27:45,958
Guard your heart.

576
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,958
Proverbs 4:23,
"Guard your heart."

577
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,250
Your heart isn't always right.

578
00:27:52,333 --> 00:27:56,208
Jeremiah 17:9 says that
the heart can be deceptive,

579
00:27:56,292 --> 00:28:00,292
and deceitful, and wicked.

580
00:28:00,333 --> 00:28:02,333
Sometimes you don't need
to follow your heart.

581
00:28:02,375 --> 00:28:06,250
You need to guard your heart.

582
00:28:06,333 --> 00:28:11,042
Some of you will say, "Well, I
just don't have love for them.

583
00:28:11,125 --> 00:28:13,000
We've fallen out of love."

584
00:28:13,083 --> 00:28:17,042
1 John 4 says repeatedly,
quote, "God is love."

585
00:28:17,125 --> 00:28:18,417
You know what that means?

586
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:20,958
Love doesn't begin with us.
It begins with him.

587
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,708
Love doesn't emanate from us.
It emanates from him.

588
00:28:23,792 --> 00:28:26,917
The love that we can have for
our spouse is a divine love.

589
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,958
It's a supernatural love.

590
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,500
It's a grace-oriented love from
God, because, though sinners,

591
00:28:33,542 --> 00:28:35,917
God loves us.

592
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,833
And even if our spouse is
in sin, or we're in sin,

593
00:28:38,917 --> 00:28:41,250
God has love for
them through us,

594
00:28:41,333 --> 00:28:43,542
and God has love
for us through them,

595
00:28:43,625 --> 00:28:47,125
and it's the love
of God through us.

596
00:28:47,167 --> 00:28:51,250
See, Christians, we have access
to the source of true love,

597
00:28:51,333 --> 00:28:53,417
the love of God.

598
00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:57,000
That's why, in addition,
Galatians 5:22 says

599
00:28:57,083 --> 00:29:00,333
that the fruit of the work of
the Holy Spirit is what?

600
00:29:00,417 --> 00:29:02,417
Love.

601
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:06,000
So, God the Holy Spirit has
love for God the Son

602
00:29:06,083 --> 00:29:07,417
and God the Father.

603
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:09,500
They are friends.

604
00:29:09,542 --> 00:29:12,708
And as the Holy Spirit takes
up residence in the life of

605
00:29:12,792 --> 00:29:16,833
the believer, he brings with
him the love of God,

606
00:29:16,875 --> 00:29:19,083
so that we can be
friends with God,

607
00:29:19,167 --> 00:29:23,750
and we can love and build
a friendship with our spouse.

608
00:29:23,833 --> 00:29:28,167
It's a miracle, and it's
something that God

609
00:29:28,208 --> 00:29:30,292
makes available
to all Christians.

610
00:29:30,333 --> 00:29:35,042
That's why in
Matthew 5:43-47, again,

611
00:29:35,125 --> 00:29:38,958
Jesus says you
can even love your enemies.

612
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,250
Now, let me say this.

613
00:29:40,333 --> 00:29:42,333
Your spouse is not your enemy.

614
00:29:42,417 --> 00:29:45,875
Your enemy is your enemy, and
your spouse is supposed to be

615
00:29:45,958 --> 00:29:49,083
your ally in the war
against your enemy.

616
00:29:49,167 --> 00:29:52,208
Never think that your
spouse is your enemy.

617
00:29:52,292 --> 00:29:55,125
Your spouse is your
friend and your ally

618
00:29:55,167 --> 00:29:58,708
in your war against your enemy.

619
00:29:58,792 --> 00:30:04,333
Do not, do not, do not say
you've fallen out of love.

620
00:30:04,375 --> 00:30:07,333
Do not, do not, do not say,

621
00:30:07,417 --> 00:30:11,000
"I'm unwilling to work
on my friendship."

622
00:30:11,042 --> 00:30:14,542
Instead, say, "By the power
of the Holy Spirit,

623
00:30:14,625 --> 00:30:17,167
"through the love
that God gives me,

624
00:30:17,250 --> 00:30:22,583
I commit myself
to being your friend,"

625
00:30:22,667 --> 00:30:27,500
and see what God
does in their heart.

626
00:30:27,542 --> 00:30:30,250
"I," it's intimate.

627
00:30:30,333 --> 00:30:31,750
It's intimate.

628
00:30:31,833 --> 00:30:33,250
It's intimacy.

629
00:30:33,333 --> 00:30:36,000
Intimacy literally
means, "into me see."

630
00:30:36,083 --> 00:30:37,417
It's knowing one another.

631
00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:39,250
It says that of
our first parents,

632
00:30:39,333 --> 00:30:42,583
that Adam was with his wife,
Eve, and he, quote, "knew her."

633
00:30:42,667 --> 00:30:44,833
It's intimacy.

634
00:30:44,917 --> 00:30:46,833
And I'll explain this.

635
00:30:46,875 --> 00:30:49,833
When it comes to marriages, as
Grace and I have been studying

636
00:30:49,875 --> 00:30:52,208
this and talking about
this--and let me say this.

637
00:30:52,292 --> 00:30:53,500
We're really excited about this.

638
00:30:53,542 --> 00:30:55,292
This has transformed
our marriage.

639
00:30:55,333 --> 00:30:57,083
We call each other "friend."
"Hey, friend."

640
00:30:57,167 --> 00:30:59,000
We're silly.
I won't use the voices.

641
00:30:59,042 --> 00:31:02,333
It's cute, at least to some,
but, like, it's playful,

642
00:31:02,417 --> 00:31:06,083
and it's fun, and we're friends.

643
00:31:06,167 --> 00:31:09,625
And friendship is so important,
because one old proverb says it

644
00:31:09,667 --> 00:31:15,500
well: "Friendship doubles the
joy and cuts the grief in half."

645
00:31:15,542 --> 00:31:17,375
That's what it does to life.

646
00:31:17,458 --> 00:31:20,833
It doubles the joy,
and it cuts the grief in half.

647
00:31:20,875 --> 00:31:23,042
It doesn't matter what
you're going through,

648
00:31:23,125 --> 00:31:27,083
it's better if you're
with your friend.

649
00:31:27,167 --> 00:31:30,625
And so it's supposed
to be intimate.

650
00:31:30,667 --> 00:31:35,667
So, there are three kinds
of marriages: back to back,

651
00:31:35,708 --> 00:31:39,208
shoulder to shoulder,
face to face.

652
00:31:39,292 --> 00:31:41,958
And what's true of marriage
is true for all friendships,

653
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,167
so this is a principle
that applies more broadly.

654
00:31:45,208 --> 00:31:47,167
But for the specific
application of marriage,

655
00:31:47,250 --> 00:31:50,333
back-to-back marriages are
really where they're adversaries

656
00:31:50,417 --> 00:31:52,208
and enemies.

657
00:31:52,292 --> 00:31:54,167
They have turned their
back on one another.

658
00:31:54,250 --> 00:31:56,208
They're bitter, they're
hostile, they're not loving,

659
00:31:56,292 --> 00:31:58,167
they're not working
on the friendship.

660
00:31:58,250 --> 00:32:00,667
It's in a bad place.

661
00:32:00,750 --> 00:32:04,958
How many of you are there?

662
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,042
The bitterness seeps out.

663
00:32:07,125 --> 00:32:08,500
The anger seeps out.

664
00:32:08,542 --> 00:32:10,792
The disgust seeps out.

665
00:32:10,833 --> 00:32:12,958
It's back to back.

666
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,792
You're not friends.

667
00:32:14,833 --> 00:32:17,000
Maybe for some years,
you could fake it.

668
00:32:17,042 --> 00:32:18,292
Any more, everybody sees it.

669
00:32:18,333 --> 00:32:21,167
It's obvious.

670
00:32:21,208 --> 00:32:24,375
Most marriages are
shoulder to shoulder.

671
00:32:24,458 --> 00:32:28,250
You're basically coworkers.

672
00:32:28,333 --> 00:32:31,333
And I think what happens is
you start off as friends,

673
00:32:31,417 --> 00:32:33,167
and then you become coworkers.

674
00:32:33,208 --> 00:32:34,667
"Okay, we've got
to finish college,

675
00:32:34,708 --> 00:32:37,375
"or pay off our student
debts, or buy our first home,

676
00:32:37,458 --> 00:32:38,667
or what about the career?"

677
00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:40,417
Or, "Oh, my gosh,
now we're pregnant.

678
00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:42,958
"Oh, my golly, what are
we going to do now?

679
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,833
"We've got a bunch of kids.
"Our parents are sick.

680
00:32:45,875 --> 00:32:47,833
"How are we going
to pay the bills?

681
00:32:47,875 --> 00:32:49,292
"I lost my job.

682
00:32:49,333 --> 00:32:50,750
We've got to start
something else."

683
00:32:50,833 --> 00:32:52,208
You're working on life.

684
00:32:52,292 --> 00:32:53,958
"We've got to go
to Little League.

685
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,667
"We've got to go to
soccer practice.

686
00:32:55,708 --> 00:32:57,583
"We're so busy.
We hardly know each other.

687
00:32:57,667 --> 00:32:59,042
What are we doing?"

688
00:32:59,125 --> 00:33:00,417
It's shoulder to shoulder.

689
00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:02,833
Work, work, work, work,
work, like business partners.

690
00:33:02,875 --> 00:33:04,333
Let me submit to you

691
00:33:04,417 --> 00:33:06,708
that a lot of marriage is
shoulder-to-shoulder work,

692
00:33:06,792 --> 00:33:09,208
but if that's all
you've got, it will not last,

693
00:33:09,292 --> 00:33:12,750
and it will not be a friendship.

694
00:33:12,833 --> 00:33:19,000
It's going to be
lonely, strangers.

695
00:33:19,083 --> 00:33:24,250
So, we want you to have
a marriage that's face to face.

696
00:33:24,333 --> 00:33:28,500
This is actually looking
one another in the eye,

697
00:33:28,583 --> 00:33:32,500
putting down your phone,
turning off the TV,

698
00:33:32,542 --> 00:33:35,333
being alone together.

699
00:33:35,375 --> 00:33:38,500
This is date night, and
evenings together, and holidays,

700
00:33:38,583 --> 00:33:41,417
and vacations, and sacred
moments that God gives

701
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:43,625
throughout the course
of the day,

702
00:33:43,667 --> 00:33:46,667
like even a minute or two
to just look at one another

703
00:33:46,708 --> 00:33:50,500
in the eye, and see love, and
connect, and be face to face.

704
00:33:50,583 --> 00:33:55,292
And face to face is the language
of the Bible for friendship.

705
00:33:55,333 --> 00:33:57,292
I'll give you a few examples.

706
00:33:57,333 --> 00:33:59,750
In Genesis 32:30, we read,

707
00:33:59,833 --> 00:34:02,000
"So Jacob called the name
of the place,"

708
00:34:02,042 --> 00:34:06,250
where God met with him,
he called it "Peniel,

709
00:34:06,333 --> 00:34:10,417
"saying, 'For I have
seen God face to face.'"

710
00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:14,000
Exodus 33:11, "Thus the Lord
used to speak to Moses

711
00:34:14,083 --> 00:34:18,708
face to face, as a man speaks
to his friend."

712
00:34:18,792 --> 00:34:21,667
That's the Bible's language
for friendship, face to face.

713
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:24,667
Judges 6:22, "And Gideon
said, 'Alas, O Lord God!

714
00:34:24,708 --> 00:34:27,833
For now I have seen the angel
of the Lord face to face.'"

715
00:34:27,917 --> 00:34:29,333
That's Jesus.

716
00:34:29,375 --> 00:34:31,125
It's not an angel of the Lord,

717
00:34:31,167 --> 00:34:34,708
it's the angel
or messenger of the Lord.

718
00:34:34,792 --> 00:34:38,833
And I love how Paul says
it in 1 Corinthians 13:12.

719
00:34:38,917 --> 00:34:43,250
He says, "Now we see like
through a dim fogged mirror,"

720
00:34:43,333 --> 00:34:48,625
or it's like looking
through a dim fogged window,

721
00:34:48,667 --> 00:34:50,958
"but the day will come

722
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,250
when we'll see
Jesus face to face."

723
00:34:54,333 --> 00:34:57,292
It's the language of friendship.

724
00:34:57,333 --> 00:34:59,333
Now, let me say this.

725
00:34:59,375 --> 00:35:02,292
As you work on your friendship,
you need to know that men

726
00:35:02,333 --> 00:35:05,292
and women generally build
their friendships differently.

727
00:35:05,333 --> 00:35:06,875
Men, true or false?

728
00:35:06,958 --> 00:35:08,833
We build our friendships
shoulder to shoulder.

729
00:35:08,875 --> 00:35:10,333
That's how guys do it.

730
00:35:10,417 --> 00:35:12,458
True or false?
True, right?

731
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:14,333
I've never seen
guys who were, like,

732
00:35:14,417 --> 00:35:16,208
"We need more quality time.

733
00:35:16,292 --> 00:35:18,250
"I feel like we never talk.

734
00:35:18,333 --> 00:35:19,958
"I think we should
just, you know,

735
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,500
"we should go out for
coffee a couple hours.

736
00:35:22,542 --> 00:35:28,542
You look at me, I look at you,
and we get to the feelings."

737
00:35:28,625 --> 00:35:31,292
If one guy does that, there's
an unwritten guy rule

738
00:35:31,333 --> 00:35:34,500
that the other guy has to kill
him and hide his body.

739
00:35:34,583 --> 00:35:36,625
We don't do that, okay?

740
00:35:36,667 --> 00:35:39,083
Guys tend to build
their friendships

741
00:35:39,167 --> 00:35:40,500
shoulder to shoulder.

742
00:35:40,542 --> 00:35:42,708
So if you ladies
ask your husband,

743
00:35:42,792 --> 00:35:45,042
"Tell me about your friends,"
they'll be like, "Well,

744
00:35:45,125 --> 00:35:47,708
"growing up as a kid, I played
sports with those guys,

745
00:35:47,792 --> 00:35:50,042
"and then I went to
school with those guys,

746
00:35:50,125 --> 00:35:52,292
"and I worked at
the job with those guys,

747
00:35:52,333 --> 00:35:54,500
and I served in the military
with those guys."

748
00:35:54,583 --> 00:35:56,500
"Oh, so you guys were
always doing something?"

749
00:35:56,583 --> 00:35:57,833
"Yeah."

750
00:35:57,917 --> 00:36:00,625
Because that's how guys
build their friendship.

751
00:36:00,667 --> 00:36:04,167
They've got to shoot something.
They've got to play a sport.

752
00:36:04,208 --> 00:36:05,833
They've got to be
turning a wrench.

753
00:36:05,917 --> 00:36:08,458
They've got to be
doing something.

754
00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:10,500
Now, women are different.

755
00:36:10,542 --> 00:36:13,333
They build their
relationships face to face.

756
00:36:13,417 --> 00:36:15,875
In observing Grace
with her friends,

757
00:36:15,958 --> 00:36:17,833
which is fascinating to me,

758
00:36:17,917 --> 00:36:21,333
it's like this
cross-cultural experience.

759
00:36:21,375 --> 00:36:23,292
She'll be like,
"I need girl time."

760
00:36:23,333 --> 00:36:25,333
"What is this?"

761
00:36:25,375 --> 00:36:27,333
"Well, we're
going to all go out."

762
00:36:27,375 --> 00:36:31,208
"What are you going to do?"
"We're going to talk."

763
00:36:31,292 --> 00:36:34,500
"For how long is
that going to go?"

764
00:36:34,542 --> 00:36:37,083
"It's going
to be a long time."

765
00:36:37,167 --> 00:36:38,875
"What are you
going to talk about?"

766
00:36:38,958 --> 00:36:41,542
"We don't know."

767
00:36:41,625 --> 00:36:43,250
"Is this punishment for
something horrendous

768
00:36:43,333 --> 00:36:45,500
that was done?"

769
00:36:45,583 --> 00:36:47,417
"No, we need to talk."

770
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:49,750
"Oh, okay.

771
00:36:49,833 --> 00:36:51,208
All right."

772
00:36:51,292 --> 00:36:53,708
My guys have never
said that to me.

773
00:36:53,792 --> 00:36:55,333
We never talk.

774
00:36:55,375 --> 00:36:58,708
We never sit in a circle, and
look at one another in the eye,

775
00:36:58,792 --> 00:37:00,375
and get to the heart.

776
00:37:00,458 --> 00:37:02,583
No, but we will
watch a cage fight,

777
00:37:02,667 --> 00:37:05,833
standing shoulder to shoulder,
eating chicken wings.

778
00:37:05,875 --> 00:37:11,417
And at the end, we feel like,
"That was quality time."

779
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:13,250
True or false?

780
00:37:13,333 --> 00:37:15,292
It's totally true.

781
00:37:15,333 --> 00:37:18,083
So, ladies, if you want
to get closer to your man,

782
00:37:18,167 --> 00:37:20,958
your husband, figure out what
shoulder to shoulder

783
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,292
looks like for him.

784
00:37:22,333 --> 00:37:25,500
And, men, if you want to be
a better friend with your wife,

785
00:37:25,542 --> 00:37:27,500
you've got to grow
in face to face.

786
00:37:27,542 --> 00:37:29,500
You've got to learn
how to ask questions,

787
00:37:29,542 --> 00:37:32,667
how not to always try and fix
her problems, how to love her,

788
00:37:32,750 --> 00:37:36,667
how to let her get emotional,
to turn off the phone,

789
00:37:36,708 --> 00:37:40,958
to not turn on the TV, to be
present for a long period

790
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,250
of time, and ask good,
heartfelt questions,

791
00:37:45,333 --> 00:37:47,167
and build a friendship.

792
00:37:47,208 --> 00:37:48,542
Ladies, do you want that?

793
00:37:48,625 --> 00:37:50,042
Yeah.

794
00:37:50,125 --> 00:37:51,750
I was reading
a book on friendship,

795
00:37:51,833 --> 00:37:54,333
and it says there's actually
three levels of communication.

796
00:37:54,375 --> 00:37:56,333
There's--make sure I get
this right--

797
00:37:56,417 --> 00:37:58,667
facts, opinions, and feelings.

798
00:37:58,708 --> 00:38:00,958
Most of our
conversations are facts.

799
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,500
"It's cold out, today."

800
00:38:02,583 --> 00:38:05,458
"Yes."

801
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:07,333
Right?

802
00:38:07,375 --> 00:38:09,833
"This stinks.
Do you want to smell it?"

803
00:38:09,917 --> 00:38:12,292
"Yes, it does stink.
That is a fact."

804
00:38:12,333 --> 00:38:14,875
I still don't know
why people do that.

805
00:38:14,958 --> 00:38:17,167
It's just facts, right?

806
00:38:17,208 --> 00:38:19,833
"Oh, the sports teams in
our town are horrible."

807
00:38:19,875 --> 00:38:21,458
"Yes, they are."

808
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:22,958
Fact.

809
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,708
Now, what happens then is as
a relationship moves deeper

810
00:38:25,792 --> 00:38:29,667
into the face to face, you
start giving your opinions.

811
00:38:29,708 --> 00:38:31,250
Okay?

812
00:38:31,333 --> 00:38:33,667
So, it's now your
opinion about politics,

813
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:37,250
or your opinion about theology,
or your opinion about issues.

814
00:38:37,333 --> 00:38:41,083
And then the third level where
it gets deep is your feelings,

815
00:38:41,167 --> 00:38:42,833
your feelings.

816
00:38:42,917 --> 00:38:46,750
Most of our conversations
are just about facts,

817
00:38:46,833 --> 00:38:53,542
few of them are about opinions,
rarely do we get to feelings.

818
00:38:53,625 --> 00:38:59,250
So, you know, with Gracie and
I, something happened yesterday,

819
00:38:59,333 --> 00:39:02,167
and we were talking,
and I just asked her,

820
00:39:02,208 --> 00:39:05,542
"Well, how--the fact is,
what happened?"

821
00:39:05,625 --> 00:39:07,250
The opinion:

822
00:39:07,333 --> 00:39:11,833
"What's your verdict on this?"

823
00:39:11,917 --> 00:39:13,458
And then the feeling:

824
00:39:13,500 --> 00:39:15,958
"How do you feel about that?"

825
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,042
She opened up, and I got
intimacy, "into me see."

826
00:39:20,125 --> 00:39:23,250
"Okay, okay, I think I
can pray for her here,

827
00:39:23,333 --> 00:39:26,333
and encourage her here, and
how could I be a good friend?"

828
00:39:26,417 --> 00:39:28,500
And sometimes that's
even the question.

829
00:39:28,542 --> 00:39:30,667
"How do you feel?"

830
00:39:30,750 --> 00:39:32,292
And then the other question is,

831
00:39:32,333 --> 00:39:36,333
"How could I be a good friend
to you right now?"

832
00:39:36,375 --> 00:39:39,125
That's face to face.

833
00:39:39,167 --> 00:39:42,167
Let me say that marriages
that are face to face,

834
00:39:42,208 --> 00:39:46,208
they're enduring,
and they're endearing.

835
00:39:46,292 --> 00:39:50,125
"E," a marriage should
also be enjoyable.

836
00:39:50,167 --> 00:39:51,833
I don't know if you know this.

837
00:39:51,917 --> 00:39:54,333
It's okay to have
fun together, right?

838
00:39:54,375 --> 00:39:55,833
You should.

839
00:39:55,875 --> 00:39:57,833
It's going to be a long time.

840
00:39:57,917 --> 00:40:00,750
You may as well put
a few memories in there.

841
00:40:00,833 --> 00:40:04,667
Ecclesiastes 9:7-9,
"Go eat your bread with joy.

842
00:40:04,708 --> 00:40:07,167
"Drink your wine
with a merry heart,

843
00:40:07,250 --> 00:40:09,875
"for God has already
approved what you do.

844
00:40:09,958 --> 00:40:13,083
"Let your garments always be
white," your sin's forgiven.

845
00:40:13,167 --> 00:40:15,458
"Let not oil be
lacking on your head.

846
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:19,500
"Enjoy life with
the wife whom you love,

847
00:40:19,542 --> 00:40:21,417
all the days of your vain--"

848
00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:23,333
or some of your translations
will say,

849
00:40:23,417 --> 00:40:26,167
"meaningless life that
he has given you under the sun,

850
00:40:26,250 --> 00:40:29,667
"because this is your portion in
life and in your toil at which

851
00:40:29,708 --> 00:40:31,167
you toil under the sun."

852
00:40:31,208 --> 00:40:32,833
Here's what he's saying.
Life is short.

853
00:40:32,917 --> 00:40:34,833
The word there for
"vain" or "meaningless,"

854
00:40:34,875 --> 00:40:38,250
it appears some 38 times
in the book of Ecclesiastes.

855
00:40:38,333 --> 00:40:39,667
In the Hebrew, it's hebel.

856
00:40:39,708 --> 00:40:42,417
The book starts with that word,
"Hebel, hebel, says the teacher.

857
00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:43,875
Life is hebel."

858
00:40:43,958 --> 00:40:45,292
The question is, "What is life?"

859
00:40:45,333 --> 00:40:47,875
I think, in this context,
the word is best rendered,

860
00:40:47,958 --> 00:40:49,958
"fleeting."

861
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,333
You wake up in the morning.

862
00:40:51,417 --> 00:40:54,542
You take a breath, and it's cold
out, and you see your breath,

863
00:40:54,625 --> 00:40:56,167
and then it's gone.

864
00:40:56,208 --> 00:40:58,542
He's saying life is like that.
It moves really fast.

865
00:40:58,625 --> 00:41:01,208
How many of you have
been married for a while,

866
00:41:01,292 --> 00:41:02,625
and it's gone fast?

867
00:41:02,667 --> 00:41:04,625
Be like, "Man,
the kids are growing up.

868
00:41:04,667 --> 00:41:06,208
We're getting old.
It's moving fast."

869
00:41:06,292 --> 00:41:07,833
The holidays come,
and you think,

870
00:41:07,875 --> 00:41:09,833
"Didn't we just have
the holidays last week?"

871
00:41:09,875 --> 00:41:11,292
It's fast!

872
00:41:11,333 --> 00:41:13,500
And what he's saying
is life is so fast,

873
00:41:13,542 --> 00:41:17,208
you just need to get dressed
up, forgive one another's sin,

874
00:41:17,292 --> 00:41:20,500
go out, find something to eat,
find something to drink,

875
00:41:20,542 --> 00:41:24,208
have some fun, make some
memories, laugh a little bit,

876
00:41:24,292 --> 00:41:28,667
blow some dough to
the glory of God.

877
00:41:28,750 --> 00:41:34,833
It's true, because one of
the attributes of God is joy,

878
00:41:34,875 --> 00:41:38,250
and he wants us to enjoy
marriage and life

879
00:41:38,333 --> 00:41:39,667
with our friend.

880
00:41:39,708 --> 00:41:42,667
So, he says here, "Get dressed
up, go out, eat something good,

881
00:41:42,708 --> 00:41:45,667
drink something
good, have some fun."

882
00:41:45,708 --> 00:41:47,167
Okay?

883
00:41:47,208 --> 00:41:48,417
So, hear me in this.

884
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:52,000
If you're going to be legalistic
about anything, make it this.

885
00:41:52,083 --> 00:41:53,375
Right?

886
00:41:53,458 --> 00:41:55,375
We're legalists
about having fun.

887
00:41:55,458 --> 00:41:59,167
We have very strong commitments
to spending money, going out,

888
00:41:59,208 --> 00:42:02,125
eating good, drinking good,
laughing good

889
00:42:02,167 --> 00:42:04,500
to the glory of God.

890
00:42:04,542 --> 00:42:06,625
Should be enjoyable.

891
00:42:06,667 --> 00:42:08,083
Make memories.

892
00:42:08,167 --> 00:42:09,375
And here's a key.

893
00:42:09,458 --> 00:42:11,750
Take photos to
remember the memories.

894
00:42:11,833 --> 00:42:13,750
And sometimes just
go back over them.

895
00:42:13,833 --> 00:42:15,208
"Oh, that was hilarious.

896
00:42:15,292 --> 00:42:17,167
"That was fun.
You look great.

897
00:42:17,208 --> 00:42:20,750
Let's do that again, twice."

898
00:42:20,833 --> 00:42:22,833
Revisit the enjoyable memories.

899
00:42:22,875 --> 00:42:26,667
In addition, marriage is needed.

900
00:42:26,708 --> 00:42:28,500
Again, Genesis 2:18.

901
00:42:28,542 --> 00:42:30,083
Before sin even
entered the world,

902
00:42:30,167 --> 00:42:31,833
God looked at the man and said,

903
00:42:31,875 --> 00:42:34,167
"It's not good to be alone."
You need--

904
00:42:34,208 --> 00:42:37,292
If you're married,
you need one another.

905
00:42:37,333 --> 00:42:38,583
You need one another.

906
00:42:38,667 --> 00:42:41,792
And to say, "No, no, no, I have
a relationship with the Lord."

907
00:42:41,833 --> 00:42:44,167
It's the Lord who told
you, you need each other.

908
00:42:44,250 --> 00:42:47,583
Some of you say, "Well, no, no,
no, I don't really need you."

909
00:42:47,667 --> 00:42:49,042
You do.

910
00:42:49,125 --> 00:42:51,292
And here was one of
my sins--I have many,

911
00:42:51,333 --> 00:42:54,292
but this is one that I'm willing
to share--in our marriage,

912
00:42:54,333 --> 00:42:56,500
and that was I gave
the impression to Grace

913
00:42:56,542 --> 00:42:58,042
that I didn't need her.

914
00:42:58,125 --> 00:43:00,458
The truth is I needed
her desperately.

915
00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:02,208
I needed her encouragement.

916
00:43:02,292 --> 00:43:03,500
I needed her friendship.

917
00:43:03,542 --> 00:43:05,333
I needed her presence.

918
00:43:05,417 --> 00:43:08,042
I didn't need her to
do a whole lot for me.

919
00:43:08,125 --> 00:43:10,458
I just needed her
to be there with me.

920
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:13,625
So, she started asking
me, "What can I do?"

921
00:43:13,667 --> 00:43:16,333
"Just be my friend.

922
00:43:16,417 --> 00:43:21,333
Just be there with me,
be there for me, be my buddy."

923
00:43:21,417 --> 00:43:24,333
And I want you to communicate
to one another how and why

924
00:43:24,417 --> 00:43:27,917
you need each other.

925
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,500
"D", devoted.

926
00:43:30,542 --> 00:43:32,833
Romans 12:15, "Rejoice
with those who rejoice,

927
00:43:32,875 --> 00:43:35,167
weep with those who weep."

928
00:43:35,208 --> 00:43:38,667
Proverbs 17:17, "A friend
loves at all times,

929
00:43:38,708 --> 00:43:41,167
and a brother is
born for adversity."

930
00:43:41,208 --> 00:43:42,833
Devoted.

931
00:43:42,917 --> 00:43:45,333
A devoted friend,
particularly a devoted marriage

932
00:43:45,375 --> 00:43:47,208
friend, they're there
when times are good,

933
00:43:47,292 --> 00:43:49,500
and they could celebrate,
and they're there when times

934
00:43:49,542 --> 00:43:52,292
are bad, and they can comfort.

935
00:43:52,333 --> 00:43:54,333
Matthew Henry,
the great Puritan,

936
00:43:54,375 --> 00:43:56,500
he says that some friends
are swallow friends.

937
00:43:56,542 --> 00:44:00,125
They leave when winter comes.

938
00:44:00,167 --> 00:44:02,333
See, when you were younger,
maybe you had drinking

939
00:44:02,375 --> 00:44:04,417
and party buddies, but they
weren't really friends,

940
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:07,542
because if something went
bad, they weren't there.

941
00:44:07,625 --> 00:44:11,208
Some of you have relationships
with your spouse in which,

942
00:44:11,292 --> 00:44:14,500
unless you have cancer or
are struggling, or are dying,

943
00:44:14,583 --> 00:44:19,292
they ignore you, because
they're only there for crisis.

944
00:44:19,333 --> 00:44:22,292
A true, devoted, marital
friendship is there

945
00:44:22,333 --> 00:44:26,917
for all seasons of life,
good and bad,

946
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:28,500
rejoice when it's time
to rejoice,

947
00:44:28,542 --> 00:44:30,500
weep when it's time to weep,

948
00:44:30,542 --> 00:44:33,000
hang in there when it's
the time of adversity,

949
00:44:33,083 --> 00:44:35,208
whatever that means.

950
00:44:35,292 --> 00:44:37,500
Devoted.

951
00:44:37,542 --> 00:44:39,667
How's it going?

952
00:44:39,708 --> 00:44:42,125
How's your friendship?

953
00:44:42,167 --> 00:44:43,667
When Grace and I were dating--

954
00:44:43,750 --> 00:44:46,208
I'll tell you a story
of her Uncle John.

955
00:44:46,292 --> 00:44:48,167
They never had children.

956
00:44:48,208 --> 00:44:50,083
He was married to Gladys.

957
00:44:50,167 --> 00:44:52,333
They're both departed now.

958
00:44:52,375 --> 00:44:54,958
I'll just say that Gladys
was a very difficult woman,

959
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,542
by all accounts,
to be married to,

960
00:44:57,625 --> 00:45:02,333
and John was very
deeply devoted to her.

961
00:45:02,417 --> 00:45:05,458
She got Alzheimer's,
had to be institutionalized,

962
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:07,417
had no memory of him whatsoever.

963
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:12,833
She had no idea who her
husband of many decades was.

964
00:45:12,917 --> 00:45:15,125
And he rented
an apartment near her,

965
00:45:15,167 --> 00:45:18,000
and as a very elderly man he
would get up every morning,

966
00:45:18,083 --> 00:45:20,875
go to the Marriott,
have breakfast,

967
00:45:20,958 --> 00:45:25,208
and then he would go visit
her and take her the fruit,

968
00:45:25,292 --> 00:45:30,333
and he would spend hours
with her every single day.

969
00:45:30,375 --> 00:45:32,000
He would sit with her.

970
00:45:32,083 --> 00:45:34,083
He would make sure
she was cared for.

971
00:45:34,167 --> 00:45:35,333
He would visit with her.

972
00:45:35,417 --> 00:45:36,833
He would brush her hair.

973
00:45:36,917 --> 00:45:38,958
He would bring her
treats and gifts,

974
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,333
and she would just look at him
and ask over and over and over,

975
00:45:42,417 --> 00:45:44,458
"Who are you?"

976
00:45:44,500 --> 00:45:47,292
And he was devoted to go visit
her every day

977
00:45:47,333 --> 00:45:50,667
for many, many, many years.

978
00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:53,208
She had no idea who he was.

979
00:45:53,292 --> 00:45:55,458
And the night before
Grace and I got married,

980
00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:59,833
I stayed at Uncle John's
house, and he told me,

981
00:45:59,917 --> 00:46:03,167
"I want you to be
devoted to Grace.

982
00:46:03,208 --> 00:46:04,833
I want you to be her friend."

983
00:46:04,917 --> 00:46:07,000
And I knew exactly
what he meant.

984
00:46:07,083 --> 00:46:09,208
If she gets old,
be a devoted friend.

985
00:46:09,292 --> 00:46:11,250
If she gets Alzheimer's,
be a devoted friend.

986
00:46:11,333 --> 00:46:14,042
If she gets cancer,
be a devoted friend.

987
00:46:14,125 --> 00:46:18,833
If life gets hard, be the one
born for adversity.

988
00:46:18,917 --> 00:46:23,125
Devoted, devoted.

989
00:46:23,167 --> 00:46:26,417
And lastly, "S,"
it is sanctifying.

990
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:30,000
Sanctifying means that
marriage shows us our sin.

991
00:46:30,083 --> 00:46:33,042
And if we repent of it
and bring Jesus into it,

992
00:46:33,125 --> 00:46:36,667
we become more like
Jesus together.

993
00:46:36,750 --> 00:46:40,250
Some of you, your spouse
hasn't changed you;

994
00:46:40,333 --> 00:46:43,292
they've revealed you.

995
00:46:43,333 --> 00:46:45,667
You say, "I wasn't like
this until I got married."

996
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:47,167
Oh, you were.

997
00:46:47,208 --> 00:46:49,750
There were just no witnesses,
right?

998
00:46:49,833 --> 00:46:52,333
Okay?

999
00:46:52,417 --> 00:46:55,333
And as your sin is exposed,
some of you will say that,

1000
00:46:55,417 --> 00:46:58,333
"I want to get rid of my
spouse, either push them away

1001
00:46:58,417 --> 00:47:00,208
"emotionally or spiritually,
or leave physically,

1002
00:47:00,292 --> 00:47:01,625
or divorce legally."

1003
00:47:01,667 --> 00:47:03,125
"Why?"

1004
00:47:03,167 --> 00:47:06,708
"Because they're showing stuff
about me that I don't like."

1005
00:47:06,792 --> 00:47:08,458
Repent of it.

1006
00:47:08,500 --> 00:47:11,000
Give it to Jesus,
who died for it.

1007
00:47:11,083 --> 00:47:12,500
Ask their forgiveness for it.

1008
00:47:12,583 --> 00:47:15,083
Become more like Jesus.

1009
00:47:15,167 --> 00:47:18,333
There are occasions where
the Bible does allow divorce.

1010
00:47:18,375 --> 00:47:21,167
I believe there's
way too much divorce.

1011
00:47:21,208 --> 00:47:23,708
And what tends to happen is
people will have sin

1012
00:47:23,792 --> 00:47:25,708
in their life,
be married to someone

1013
00:47:25,792 --> 00:47:27,208
and think, "That's it.

1014
00:47:27,292 --> 00:47:28,625
I've married the wrong person."

1015
00:47:28,667 --> 00:47:31,833
They never think, "I'm
the wrong person."

1016
00:47:31,875 --> 00:47:35,000
And so then they will divorce
someone and marry someone else,

1017
00:47:35,083 --> 00:47:38,333
and the percentage of divorce
in the second marriage is higher

1018
00:47:38,417 --> 00:47:41,667
than the first, because if
you're not being sanctified,

1019
00:47:41,708 --> 00:47:43,750
you're just going to blow
through one relationship

1020
00:47:43,833 --> 00:47:46,500
after another.

1021
00:47:46,542 --> 00:47:49,333
And if you're being sanctified,
you can get a new marriage

1022
00:47:49,417 --> 00:47:51,625
with the same spouse,
because you and your spouse,

1023
00:47:51,667 --> 00:47:54,292
by the grace of God,
become new people.

1024
00:47:54,333 --> 00:47:56,500
That's sanctification.

1025
00:47:56,583 --> 00:47:58,917
Gary Thomas says it this way,

1026
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,000
"What if God designed
marriage to make us holy,

1027
00:48:02,042 --> 00:48:04,167
more than to make us happy?"

1028
00:48:04,250 --> 00:48:07,208
And I hear this from couples
all the time, "Well, you know,

1029
00:48:07,292 --> 00:48:08,708
God wants me to be happy!"

1030
00:48:08,792 --> 00:48:10,875
You know, God wants
you to be holy.

1031
00:48:10,958 --> 00:48:13,958
You worship a guy who got
betrayed,

1032
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,000
flogged, crucified,

1033
00:48:18,083 --> 00:48:20,500
and he didn't hang
on the cross and say,

1034
00:48:20,583 --> 00:48:24,333
"The Father wants
me to be happy."

1035
00:48:24,417 --> 00:48:28,417
The reason Jesus died
was to make us holy.

1036
00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:31,667
The reason Jesus rose
is to make us holy.

1037
00:48:31,708 --> 00:48:34,750
And here's the truth: holy
people are happy people,

1038
00:48:34,833 --> 00:48:37,333
and sometimes people
who pursue happiness

1039
00:48:37,417 --> 00:48:40,958
are the most miserable of all.

1040
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,083
Pursue holiness, and if God
should give you happiness,

1041
00:48:44,167 --> 00:48:48,208
praise be to God, but if God
does not give you happiness,

1042
00:48:48,292 --> 00:48:50,333
you will find happiness
in the holiness.

1043
00:48:50,417 --> 00:48:54,167
And in your marriage, you need
to know that you will expose

1044
00:48:54,208 --> 00:48:58,750
their sin, they will expose your
sin, and you both need Jesus,

1045
00:48:58,833 --> 00:49:02,583
so that his death can be
the life of your marriage

1046
00:49:02,667 --> 00:49:06,208
and that you both can become
more like him.

1047
00:49:06,292 --> 00:49:09,042
That's our story.

1048
00:49:09,125 --> 00:49:11,292
Proverbs 13:20 says it this way.

1049
00:49:11,333 --> 00:49:13,875
"Whoever walks with
the wise becomes wise,

1050
00:49:13,958 --> 00:49:16,917
but the companion of
fools will suffer harm."

1051
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,875
We become like those whom we
choose as our closest friends.

1052
00:49:19,958 --> 00:49:22,667
That's why some people choose
horrible people as friends.

1053
00:49:22,708 --> 00:49:27,458
They really do want to sin
with them and become like them.

1054
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:29,333
Your nearest
and dearest friends,

1055
00:49:29,417 --> 00:49:31,167
your confidantes
and your counselors,

1056
00:49:31,208 --> 00:49:35,208
beginning with your
spouse, should be wise.

1057
00:49:35,292 --> 00:49:39,167
So, what that means for you,
you want to be a wise friend for

1058
00:49:39,208 --> 00:49:43,333
your spouse, so that they would
grow to be more like Jesus.

1059
00:49:43,375 --> 00:49:46,167
And you should want
to, in every way,

1060
00:49:46,208 --> 00:49:49,833
see them grow
to be more like Jesus.

1061
00:49:49,875 --> 00:49:52,833
And I just feel inclined,
I don't have this in my notes,

1062
00:49:52,875 --> 00:49:55,417
but I feel inclined of
the Holy Spirit to say this.

1063
00:49:55,500 --> 00:49:58,292
Some of you are married to
people who are very difficult,

1064
00:49:58,333 --> 00:50:02,250
and life is hard, and them
being sanctified is incredibly

1065
00:50:02,333 --> 00:50:05,083
painful, and it's arduous,
and it's not easy,

1066
00:50:05,167 --> 00:50:07,167
because they're stiff-necked,
and they're hard-hearted,

1067
00:50:07,250 --> 00:50:09,833
and they're stubborn,
and they're tough.

1068
00:50:09,875 --> 00:50:12,208
And some of you would
look at God and say,

1069
00:50:12,292 --> 00:50:13,833
"God, don't you love me?"

1070
00:50:13,875 --> 00:50:15,542
He does, and he loves them.

1071
00:50:15,625 --> 00:50:18,208
And he's not punished you,
but he's sent you on

1072
00:50:18,292 --> 00:50:23,083
a divine mission to serve them,
to love them, to pursue them,

1073
00:50:23,167 --> 00:50:27,208
to forgive them, to help them;
not in a self-righteous, smug,

1074
00:50:27,292 --> 00:50:30,000
holier-than-thou way,
but in a humble, sacrificial,

1075
00:50:30,042 --> 00:50:32,583
affectionate way.

1076
00:50:32,667 --> 00:50:35,625
And as you do,
by the grace of God,

1077
00:50:35,667 --> 00:50:38,542
you will realize that they're
not the only sinner

1078
00:50:38,625 --> 00:50:42,167
in the marriage
and that God is using them

1079
00:50:42,250 --> 00:50:46,208
to sanctify you, as well.

1080
00:50:46,292 --> 00:50:50,167
That being said, if Grace and
I could give you one big idea:

1081
00:50:50,208 --> 00:50:52,167
friendship.

1082
00:50:52,250 --> 00:50:54,167
How's your friendship
with Jesus?

1083
00:50:54,208 --> 00:50:56,667
How's your friendship
with your spouse?

1084
00:50:56,708 --> 00:51:00,250
That being said, I'm excited to
introduce you to my friend

1085
00:51:00,333 --> 00:51:05,208
and answer
some of your questions.

1086
00:51:05,292 --> 00:51:06,667
Hi.

1087
00:51:06,750 --> 00:51:08,167
You wore the boots.

1088
00:51:08,208 --> 00:51:12,375
Those are so cute.

1089
00:51:12,458 --> 00:51:14,500
Do you want to answer
some questions?

1090
00:51:14,542 --> 00:51:16,000
I will.

1091
00:51:16,042 --> 00:51:17,750
Do you have a microphone?
I do.

1092
00:51:17,833 --> 00:51:20,167
Okay, good.

1093
00:51:20,250 --> 00:51:21,833
Oh, yeah.

1094
00:51:21,875 --> 00:51:23,292
You're in the way.

1095
00:51:23,333 --> 00:51:25,000
Okay, I'm sorry.

1096
00:51:25,042 --> 00:51:27,375
Why don't you sit right
over here, sweetie pie?

1097
00:51:27,458 --> 00:51:30,542
Let me steal--can I steal
one of those waters?

1098
00:51:30,625 --> 00:51:32,667
You can have them both.
Have them both?

1099
00:51:32,750 --> 00:51:35,667
And I'll just take this, and
then I don't need that back.

1100
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:37,167
Thank you.

1101
00:51:37,250 --> 00:51:38,458
Hi.

1102
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:40,042
Hi, friend.
Hi, friend.

1103
00:51:40,125 --> 00:51:42,208
You want a water
over there, baby?

1104
00:51:42,292 --> 00:51:43,500
Okay.

1105
00:51:43,542 --> 00:51:45,167
I'm going to have a sip,

1106
00:51:45,208 --> 00:51:46,708
and then we'll answer
some questions.

1107
00:51:46,792 --> 00:51:48,958
I really like the boots.

1108
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:54,542
You bought them for me.

1109
00:51:54,625 --> 00:51:56,042
Hey, I wore boots, too.

1110
00:51:56,125 --> 00:51:57,333
That's what friends do.

1111
00:51:57,417 --> 00:51:59,667
All right, if it's
cool with you,

1112
00:51:59,750 --> 00:52:03,500
we're going to answer some
questions that folks have got.

1113
00:52:03,583 --> 00:52:06,750
And so we'll start right here.

1114
00:52:06,833 --> 00:52:09,292
"I greatly desire
to be led by my husband,

1115
00:52:09,333 --> 00:52:11,958
"but often I feel like
I am not easy to lead.

1116
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:17,792
"I'm not sure if I'd want
to lead me if I were a man.

1117
00:52:17,833 --> 00:52:22,792
Grace, do you have
any pointers?"

1118
00:52:22,833 --> 00:52:25,167
Oh, I've definitely been
difficult to lead, at times,

1119
00:52:25,208 --> 00:52:26,625
as well.

1120
00:52:26,667 --> 00:52:30,000
I think probably a first step
is repenting of that

1121
00:52:30,042 --> 00:52:35,167
to your husband and saying,
"I've been difficult to lead.

1122
00:52:35,250 --> 00:52:41,167
"What are some ways that would
be helpful for me to step back

1123
00:52:41,208 --> 00:52:46,208
a bit and be a humble learner?"

1124
00:52:46,292 --> 00:52:49,167
And have him pray about
that maybe before

1125
00:52:49,250 --> 00:52:51,250
he speaks into that.

1126
00:52:51,333 --> 00:52:56,958
Give him an opportunity
to have a patient response.

1127
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,667
I think, for me, repentance
was always the key first;

1128
00:53:00,708 --> 00:53:04,167
and if repented, then the Lord
was able to open my heart to see

1129
00:53:04,208 --> 00:53:07,250
new ways of responding.

1130
00:53:07,333 --> 00:53:12,208
Usually, if you
are hard to lead,

1131
00:53:12,292 --> 00:53:15,833
it's because there's fears in
there somewhere or maybe lies.

1132
00:53:15,917 --> 00:53:18,917
So, asking the Lord to show
you where your fears are,

1133
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,458
why you don't--maybe if you
don't trust your husband

1134
00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:25,667
to lead, or if you want
to control a situation,

1135
00:53:25,708 --> 00:53:30,500
asking where that fear is and
asking your husband to help pray

1136
00:53:30,542 --> 00:53:33,500
over you, through that fear.

1137
00:53:33,583 --> 00:53:37,333
Those can be some helpful ways
to kind of get into reasons

1138
00:53:37,375 --> 00:53:41,333
why--reasons behind why
you're struggling with that.

1139
00:53:41,375 --> 00:53:44,292
What are some of the common
lies that women believe

1140
00:53:44,333 --> 00:53:46,708
that cause this conflict?

1141
00:53:46,792 --> 00:53:49,500
Because she sounds conflicted,
like, "I want him to lead,

1142
00:53:49,542 --> 00:53:53,000
but if he does,
I'm not going to follow."

1143
00:53:53,083 --> 00:53:55,250
I mean,
she's very conflicted.

1144
00:53:55,333 --> 00:53:58,208
Under that, there's often
a lie that she's believing

1145
00:53:58,292 --> 00:54:03,333
that's really keeping her
constrained.

1146
00:54:03,375 --> 00:54:05,833
I think it can be from
previous relationships,

1147
00:54:05,875 --> 00:54:09,000
that sometimes we believe that
if we've been hurt by previous

1148
00:54:09,083 --> 00:54:13,167
relationships, that we believe
a lie that our husband is

1149
00:54:13,208 --> 00:54:18,333
going to do the same thing,
even if he doesn't or hasn't.

1150
00:54:18,417 --> 00:54:21,250
Sometimes we put that on him.

1151
00:54:21,333 --> 00:54:26,208
We believe lies that maybe,
"He doesn't really care,

1152
00:54:26,292 --> 00:54:30,542
or maybe he doesn't really
love me as much as he says."

1153
00:54:30,625 --> 00:54:35,292
I know, for me, you continued
to tell me you loved me,

1154
00:54:35,333 --> 00:54:38,833
but then just because we
weren't interacting well

1155
00:54:38,917 --> 00:54:43,500
and communicating
in a loving way, I really,

1156
00:54:43,542 --> 00:54:46,250
I didn't want to believe that,
and I believed the lie

1157
00:54:46,333 --> 00:54:49,250
from the enemy, too, that you
were too good for me,

1158
00:54:49,333 --> 00:54:52,083
and because I had withheld
certain sins from you,

1159
00:54:52,167 --> 00:54:55,083
you were going to
someday find out,

1160
00:54:55,167 --> 00:54:58,125
and you were just--you're
not going to be there anyway.

1161
00:54:58,167 --> 00:55:00,625
So, I started to believe
lies and set myself up.

1162
00:55:00,667 --> 00:55:02,000
You're serious?

1163
00:55:02,083 --> 00:55:04,000
You thought I'd--
"He's going to leave anyways"?

1164
00:55:04,083 --> 00:55:06,708
Yeah, and so you start to
sabotage certain things in your

1165
00:55:06,792 --> 00:55:09,333
life, because you think, "Well,
I've got to protect myself,

1166
00:55:09,375 --> 00:55:10,625
if this happens."

1167
00:55:10,667 --> 00:55:14,708
But those are all based on
lies that had no truth to it.

1168
00:55:14,792 --> 00:55:17,333
So, I think, yeah,
I think, just,

1169
00:55:17,417 --> 00:55:21,875
I started to actually journal
out lies that I was believing,

1170
00:55:21,958 --> 00:55:25,500
and it helped me see,
okay, that's a lie,

1171
00:55:25,583 --> 00:55:28,625
and then I would put either
a Scripture or a truth.

1172
00:55:28,667 --> 00:55:31,250
I would ask you
and say, "This is a lie.

1173
00:55:31,333 --> 00:55:32,833
"What's a truth?

1174
00:55:32,917 --> 00:55:35,000
What's a counter
response to this?"

1175
00:55:35,083 --> 00:55:37,125
And so then I started
journaling those out,

1176
00:55:37,167 --> 00:55:39,125
so that I could actually
look and see,

1177
00:55:39,167 --> 00:55:40,583
"Okay, I'm believing
this lie again.

1178
00:55:40,667 --> 00:55:42,125
What's the truth?"

1179
00:55:42,167 --> 00:55:45,708
And for a while, I had to do
that until God renewed my mind

1180
00:55:45,792 --> 00:55:48,292
in certain areas, because I
was so prone to believe

1181
00:55:48,333 --> 00:55:49,667
certain lies.

1182
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:53,292
So, I think it's good to see
it on paper and see that we

1183
00:55:53,333 --> 00:55:56,417
actually are believing
in certain lies.

1184
00:55:56,500 --> 00:55:59,500
I'm really sad you thought
I would leave, right?

1185
00:55:59,583 --> 00:56:01,875
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.

1186
00:56:01,958 --> 00:56:04,167
No, it's okay.

1187
00:56:04,208 --> 00:56:06,667
We'll answer another
question before I cry.

1188
00:56:06,750 --> 00:56:08,833
Okay.

1189
00:56:08,875 --> 00:56:10,208
"If two people meet--"

1190
00:56:10,292 --> 00:56:11,958
- Just being honest.
- I know.

1191
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,333
That makes me so sad for
you to think--I mean,

1192
00:56:14,417 --> 00:56:17,542
but for me to think that, that
you would actually just assume

1193
00:56:17,625 --> 00:56:20,458
at some point I would leave.

1194
00:56:20,500 --> 00:56:23,333
But if that's the kind of
lie that a woman believes,

1195
00:56:23,375 --> 00:56:27,208
I could see where that totally
paralyzes her ability to trust.

1196
00:56:27,292 --> 00:56:30,542
"If two people meet
and immediately start dating,

1197
00:56:30,625 --> 00:56:34,417
"what are your beliefs on how
long it takes to build

1198
00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:38,500
a solid friendship before
moving into marriage?"

1199
00:56:38,583 --> 00:56:42,917
I mean, I'd want to unpack this
like "immediately," like,

1200
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,417
"Oh, you ordered a cappuccino.

1201
00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:47,208
"I ordered a cappuccino.

1202
00:56:47,292 --> 00:56:48,958
What size dress would fit?"

1203
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,500
I mean, you know--I mean, how--

1204
00:56:51,542 --> 00:56:53,667
How fast are we moving here?

1205
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:56,500
But part of this sometimes is
the idol of dependence

1206
00:56:56,542 --> 00:56:57,958
that I talked about.

1207
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,708
When I see people that are,
like, "We love each other,

1208
00:57:00,792 --> 00:57:02,333
"we're soul mates, it's amazing,

1209
00:57:02,375 --> 00:57:03,917
we're going to be together
forever,"

1210
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,333
it's like, how many
times have you had this

1211
00:57:06,375 --> 00:57:08,417
euphoric first commitment?

1212
00:57:08,500 --> 00:57:10,708
And if it's habitual,

1213
00:57:10,792 --> 00:57:13,000
then what you've got is an idol
of dependence.

1214
00:57:13,083 --> 00:57:14,708
You cannot be single.

1215
00:57:14,792 --> 00:57:16,458
You have to be in
a relationship.

1216
00:57:16,500 --> 00:57:18,917
And as soon as you meet
someone, you're like,

1217
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:23,125
you're like a drowning
victim grabbing a life ring.

1218
00:57:23,167 --> 00:57:26,542
If that's the case, then I don't
know whether or not you should

1219
00:57:26,625 --> 00:57:29,833
be together, but you shouldn't
be together for those reasons or

1220
00:57:29,875 --> 00:57:32,125
under those circumstances.

1221
00:57:32,167 --> 00:57:35,000
And so I think this is where
you bring in godly counsel.

1222
00:57:35,083 --> 00:57:37,167
This is where you
meet with a pastor.

1223
00:57:37,208 --> 00:57:38,667
If you've got godly parents,

1224
00:57:38,708 --> 00:57:40,417
you seek the consultation of
your parents.

1225
00:57:40,500 --> 00:57:43,333
If you're in a Community Group,
you invite this person to your

1226
00:57:43,375 --> 00:57:45,875
Community Group to get to know
your circle of friends

1227
00:57:45,958 --> 00:57:49,333
and to be known
in your community.

1228
00:57:49,417 --> 00:57:52,500
And you don't make those
massive life decisions

1229
00:57:52,583 --> 00:57:55,333
instantaneously and alone.

1230
00:57:55,417 --> 00:57:59,208
Proverbs says, "In the counsel
of many, there's wisdom."

1231
00:57:59,292 --> 00:58:01,417
It's good to get
a lot of counsel.

1232
00:58:01,500 --> 00:58:04,333
And the truth is, too, it can
take a while to really

1233
00:58:04,417 --> 00:58:07,708
get to know somebody,
because people can put on

1234
00:58:07,792 --> 00:58:10,292
their best impression for a bit.

1235
00:58:10,333 --> 00:58:12,333
And if it is moving
toward marriage,

1236
00:58:12,417 --> 00:58:15,875
we would always encourage
a strong premarital process.

1237
00:58:15,958 --> 00:58:18,125
And I do believe in
the grace of God,

1238
00:58:18,167 --> 00:58:21,833
that we have one of the best in
the country at Mars Hill Church.

1239
00:58:21,875 --> 00:58:26,167
It's very thorough, biblical,
practical, pastoral;

1240
00:58:26,208 --> 00:58:29,333
and even that will take
some months to go through.

1241
00:58:29,417 --> 00:58:32,333
And so, you know,
that may slow it down,

1242
00:58:32,417 --> 00:58:36,250
but it's intentionally created
to not just have you

1243
00:58:36,333 --> 00:58:39,208
get married, but be
the right person,

1244
00:58:39,292 --> 00:58:41,833
who marries the right
person, at the right time,

1245
00:58:41,917 --> 00:58:45,875
in the right way,
for the right reasons.

1246
00:58:45,958 --> 00:58:48,875
"What do you do if you are not
satisfied with the state

1247
00:58:48,958 --> 00:58:50,667
"of the marriage,
the friendship, et cetera,

1248
00:58:50,750 --> 00:58:56,083
but your spouse sees no problem
with things as they are?"

1249
00:58:56,167 --> 00:58:58,333
Well, I could tell you what
not to do:

1250
00:58:58,375 --> 00:59:00,958
nag, browbeat, threaten,

1251
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,667
because that
doesn't invite.

1252
00:59:04,750 --> 00:59:07,917
But I think humbly
communicating, "I love you.

1253
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,000
"I need you.

1254
00:59:10,083 --> 00:59:11,500
"I need more of you.

1255
00:59:11,583 --> 00:59:13,333
"I want to be closer to you.

1256
00:59:13,375 --> 00:59:16,417
"I want our affection
to grow over time.

1257
00:59:16,500 --> 00:59:19,292
"I don't want us
to be, in a few years,

1258
00:59:19,333 --> 00:59:21,958
"the same place we are today.

1259
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,667
"And I'm not saying that
where we are is horrible,

1260
00:59:24,708 --> 00:59:28,958
"but I really do want to be
closer and closer and closer

1261
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,833
to you."

1262
00:59:31,917 --> 00:59:34,542
I think finding humble ways
to articulate that need

1263
00:59:34,625 --> 00:59:38,417
and to invite your spouse
in could be helpful.

1264
00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:41,292
Sometimes that's a cover
for not wanting to deal with

1265
00:59:41,333 --> 00:59:44,333
conflict is to say that,
"I think things are fine."

1266
00:59:44,417 --> 00:59:48,625
I know that I would've said
certain things that I thought

1267
00:59:48,667 --> 00:59:53,042
were fine about our marriage,
but I was--I didn't want to deal

1268
00:59:53,125 --> 00:59:55,875
with certain issues, and so
that was just my way

1269
00:59:55,958 --> 00:59:57,833
of avoiding that.

1270
00:59:57,875 --> 00:59:59,292
It's good enough.

1271
00:59:59,333 --> 01:00:01,417
Mm-hm, and being,
just being content,

1272
01:00:01,500 --> 01:00:04,292
when I shouldn't have been,
because there's always room

1273
01:00:04,333 --> 01:00:10,208
for growing in joy
and maturing in a marriage.

1274
01:00:10,292 --> 01:00:13,333
And if we're not doing that, no
matter how many years we've been

1275
01:00:13,417 --> 01:00:15,375
married, that's not a good sign.

1276
01:00:15,458 --> 01:00:17,000
So, I think--

1277
01:00:17,042 --> 01:00:18,833
Yeah, and sometimes
it's covering up sin.

1278
01:00:18,917 --> 01:00:20,333
The spouse is
drawing near, saying,

1279
01:00:20,375 --> 01:00:23,167
"I want to get to know
you, I want to talk,"

1280
01:00:23,250 --> 01:00:26,167
and the other person is like,
"There's stuff I don't want to

1281
01:00:26,250 --> 01:00:29,625
"talk about, I don't want you to
know, I don't want you to see.

1282
01:00:29,667 --> 01:00:30,958
"It's good enough.

1283
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,625
"Let's keep a little distance,
because if you get too close,

1284
01:00:33,667 --> 01:00:35,333
"we're going to talk
about the things

1285
01:00:35,417 --> 01:00:37,167
that I don't want
to talk about."

1286
01:00:37,250 --> 01:00:39,625
And so sometimes, yeah,
it can be hiding of sin.

1287
01:00:39,667 --> 01:00:42,542
And that's what you see with
our first parents in the garden.

1288
01:00:42,625 --> 01:00:44,792
As soon as sin happens,
what do they do?

1289
01:00:44,833 --> 01:00:46,167
Cover themselves and hide.

1290
01:00:46,250 --> 01:00:49,292
And if you're saying, "How
come I can't get close to you?

1291
01:00:49,333 --> 01:00:52,042
How come you keep hiding?
How come you keep covering up?"

1292
01:00:52,125 --> 01:00:55,250
I'm not saying it's the case,
but I'm saying that often it is,

1293
01:00:55,333 --> 01:00:56,542
based upon Scripture
and experience,

1294
01:00:56,625 --> 01:00:57,833
sometimes there's sin there.

1295
01:00:57,917 --> 01:01:00,417
There's something that they
don't want you to find out.

1296
01:01:00,500 --> 01:01:02,917
And if that's the case,
then you've got to pray

1297
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:04,333
for the Holy Spirit's conviction

1298
01:01:04,417 --> 01:01:06,333
to lead them to
a place of confession,

1299
01:01:06,417 --> 01:01:08,042
saying, "Okay, here's
really what I've done,

1300
01:01:08,125 --> 01:01:11,042
"or what I'm going, and here's
why you feel distant from me,

1301
01:01:11,125 --> 01:01:12,750
because the sin has
come between us."

1302
01:01:12,833 --> 01:01:15,667
And at that point, you may
have a crisis in your marriage,

1303
01:01:15,708 --> 01:01:18,208
but the truth is you
already have a crisis.

1304
01:01:18,292 --> 01:01:22,208
You just may not know it yet,
and making it known at least

1305
01:01:22,292 --> 01:01:24,708
provides you the opportunity
to, in the grace of God,

1306
01:01:24,792 --> 01:01:26,958
through Jesus, to deal with it.

1307
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,708
And so this is where, too,
if it really is ongoing,

1308
01:01:29,792 --> 01:01:33,833
this may be where you bring in
godly counsel; not your family,

1309
01:01:33,917 --> 01:01:37,208
but maybe a good, godly couple,
or you bring in a pastor

1310
01:01:37,292 --> 01:01:40,458
or a biblically based counselor,
and you say, "You know,

1311
01:01:40,500 --> 01:01:44,208
"I'm not willing to settle for
just distant parallel lives.

1312
01:01:44,292 --> 01:01:45,958
"I want us to be one,

1313
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:47,958
"because the Bible says
that we should strive

1314
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,167
"to be one, and I
want to be friends,

1315
01:01:50,250 --> 01:01:52,667
"because the Bible says
we should be face to face

1316
01:01:52,708 --> 01:01:54,167
and not just shoulder
to shoulder."

1317
01:01:54,208 --> 01:01:57,542
And so part of it, too, is not
just making your demands to your

1318
01:01:57,625 --> 01:02:00,333
spouse, but saying, "Man, God
said some stuff in the Bible,

1319
01:02:00,375 --> 01:02:02,500
"and we want to,
in the grace of God,

1320
01:02:02,583 --> 01:02:07,000
pursue what God has for us and
not settle for anything less."

1321
01:02:07,042 --> 01:02:09,458
Do another one.

1322
01:02:09,500 --> 01:02:12,083
"How do you work out differences
in how you manage

1323
01:02:12,167 --> 01:02:13,958
and organize your home?"

1324
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,625
You know,
the opposites always marry.

1325
01:02:16,667 --> 01:02:18,667
Like, the night owl
marries the early bird.

1326
01:02:18,750 --> 01:02:21,333
The neatnik marries the slob.

1327
01:02:21,417 --> 01:02:24,208
The saver marries the spender.

1328
01:02:24,292 --> 01:02:27,750
The highly organized
person marries the artist.

1329
01:02:27,833 --> 01:02:29,458
I mean, it happens.

1330
01:02:29,500 --> 01:02:33,167
So, thankfully,
we're exactly alike.

1331
01:02:33,208 --> 01:02:36,042
No, we're not.

1332
01:02:36,125 --> 01:02:37,792
Maybe you could speak to this.

1333
01:02:37,833 --> 01:02:39,167
We're different.

1334
01:02:39,250 --> 01:02:41,250
Maybe you explain that.

1335
01:02:41,333 --> 01:02:45,292
I think we're still working
through how to

1336
01:02:45,333 --> 01:02:47,167
figure out differences.

1337
01:02:47,250 --> 01:02:48,708
Upon the resurrection
of the dead,

1338
01:02:48,792 --> 01:02:52,167
when all things are perfect,
this will be nailed.

1339
01:02:52,250 --> 01:02:55,417
Yeah, I'm not
a highly organized person,

1340
01:02:55,500 --> 01:02:57,875
and Mark's a planner,
and organized,

1341
01:02:57,958 --> 01:03:01,458
and likes things
organized, and I'm chaotic,

1342
01:03:01,500 --> 01:03:06,625
and legalistic about weird
things and not others,

1343
01:03:06,667 --> 01:03:10,292
and so this has been
a long process for us

1344
01:03:10,333 --> 01:03:12,333
and will continue to be
probably.

1345
01:03:12,417 --> 01:03:16,167
I think just being willing to
talk about it and not be serious

1346
01:03:16,208 --> 01:03:17,708
about it so much.

1347
01:03:17,792 --> 01:03:20,000
Just be willing to laugh
at yourself about it.

1348
01:03:20,083 --> 01:03:24,417
Okay, then give an example.

1349
01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:26,833
I don't know if
I can think of one.

1350
01:03:26,875 --> 01:03:28,292
There's a lot of them.

1351
01:03:28,333 --> 01:03:32,125
[laughing]

1352
01:03:33,292 --> 01:03:37,125
Like what?

1353
01:03:37,167 --> 01:03:42,458
Be nice.

1354
01:03:42,500 --> 01:03:44,417
You like stacks.

1355
01:03:44,500 --> 01:03:46,333
No, I don't.

1356
01:03:46,417 --> 01:03:49,042
I just don't know how
to get rid of them.

1357
01:03:49,125 --> 01:03:51,167
Okay.

1358
01:03:51,208 --> 01:03:54,250
[laughing]

1359
01:03:54,333 --> 01:03:57,333
We have a lot of paperwork
that comes into our house,

1360
01:03:57,417 --> 01:03:59,500
with five kids,
and mail, and everything.

1361
01:03:59,583 --> 01:04:02,125
And I've gotten
better, but, yeah,

1362
01:04:02,167 --> 01:04:04,542
I didn't see it as
a problem at all before.

1363
01:04:04,625 --> 01:04:08,208
Now I see it as a problem, but
I don't know how to resolve it,

1364
01:04:08,292 --> 01:04:09,667
as well as I could.

1365
01:04:09,750 --> 01:04:11,167
That's progress.

1366
01:04:11,208 --> 01:04:14,333
So, I'm asking people
to help me with systems,

1367
01:04:14,375 --> 01:04:19,083
which was humbling, because
people kept telling me I was

1368
01:04:19,167 --> 01:04:21,333
organized, and I'm really not.

1369
01:04:21,375 --> 01:04:24,250
And so just first recognizing
that it was an issue was

1370
01:04:24,333 --> 01:04:26,458
a big, long process.

1371
01:04:26,500 --> 01:04:27,917
I'm sorry.

1372
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:29,917
Did I used to freak out
about it,

1373
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,250
mess, disorganization, stacks?

1374
01:04:33,333 --> 01:04:34,833
Yeah.

1375
01:04:34,917 --> 01:04:40,208
And how would I freak out?

1376
01:04:40,292 --> 01:04:43,333
Just by freaking
out and saying,

1377
01:04:43,417 --> 01:04:45,417
"Get rid of those stacks.

1378
01:04:45,500 --> 01:04:48,208
I'm sick of the stacks."

1379
01:04:48,292 --> 01:04:50,667
[laughing]

1380
01:04:50,708 --> 01:04:56,333
Encouraging things like, "How
come we can't sit at our table?"

1381
01:04:56,417 --> 01:04:59,167
It was just
covered in things.

1382
01:04:59,208 --> 01:05:02,292
It wasn't that bad.

1383
01:05:02,333 --> 01:05:05,333
[laughing]

1384
01:05:05,417 --> 01:05:08,250
Before kids maybe--oh,
you mean the--oh, the--okay,

1385
01:05:08,333 --> 01:05:11,667
I know what table you mean.

1386
01:05:11,708 --> 01:05:13,750
Let's just say,
right now, I could call,

1387
01:05:13,833 --> 01:05:16,208
and they could send us a photo
of the table

1388
01:05:16,292 --> 01:05:18,208
that we can't sit at.

1389
01:05:18,292 --> 01:05:20,708
We have a bigger table
that's always clear.

1390
01:05:20,792 --> 01:05:22,417
I know.
I just keep buying tables.

1391
01:05:22,500 --> 01:05:26,125
That's what I, like--

1392
01:05:26,167 --> 01:05:27,833
So, there you go.

1393
01:05:27,917 --> 01:05:29,667
Buy more tables.

1394
01:05:29,708 --> 01:05:33,625
That's the answer
to the question.

1395
01:05:33,667 --> 01:05:37,208
Okay, so seeing the problem,

1396
01:05:37,292 --> 01:05:40,750
being reminded
of the problem, yeah,

1397
01:05:40,833 --> 01:05:43,417
and I think laughing about
it, having a sense of humor,

1398
01:05:43,500 --> 01:05:45,250
but being willing to change.

1399
01:05:45,333 --> 01:05:48,333
And I think, for me, I have
several friends that are

1400
01:05:48,417 --> 01:05:50,333
highly organized,
and so I need to be--

1401
01:05:50,417 --> 01:05:52,500
I couldn't live
like that, though.

1402
01:05:52,542 --> 01:05:55,708
I mean, if I had to live
with a librarian, you know,

1403
01:05:55,792 --> 01:05:57,292
and everything was--

1404
01:05:57,333 --> 01:06:00,708
No, no, no, but they can
show me systems and ways of--

1405
01:06:00,792 --> 01:06:03,750
and so I have, even with
the, like, with the lockers,

1406
01:06:03,833 --> 01:06:07,292
with the kids' stuff, just
buying used lockers that I keep

1407
01:06:07,333 --> 01:06:09,333
all their coats
and shoes in now,

1408
01:06:09,375 --> 01:06:11,125
instead of all over the house.

1409
01:06:11,167 --> 01:06:14,208
And so it's just a matter of
figuring out systems that work

1410
01:06:14,292 --> 01:06:15,500
for us and--

1411
01:06:15,542 --> 01:06:18,333
And part of it is, in the
marriage, just figuring out,

1412
01:06:18,417 --> 01:06:20,583
is this something that
is really a big deal,

1413
01:06:20,667 --> 01:06:23,583
or is this one of those
things I need to let go?

1414
01:06:23,667 --> 01:06:26,083
Because if you can
let it go, let it go.

1415
01:06:26,167 --> 01:06:29,417
If it's not a sin, it's just
how God wired your spouse.

1416
01:06:29,500 --> 01:06:31,708
You know, let it go.

1417
01:06:31,792 --> 01:06:34,958
But if it's something that needs
to get worked on, then, yeah,

1418
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:36,458
work on it together.

1419
01:06:36,500 --> 01:06:38,667
Don't just stand back and
shame the other person,

1420
01:06:38,750 --> 01:06:41,333
as I've done for decades.

1421
01:06:41,375 --> 01:06:43,125
But at the same time--

1422
01:06:43,167 --> 01:06:44,708
And consider seasons of life.

1423
01:06:44,792 --> 01:06:47,333
Yeah, if you've got little
kids or something's going on,

1424
01:06:47,375 --> 01:06:48,625
yeah.

1425
01:06:48,667 --> 01:06:51,208
But I would say this.

1426
01:06:51,292 --> 01:06:55,000
I still don't like
all the stacks,

1427
01:06:55,083 --> 01:06:59,125
but I can honestly say

1428
01:06:59,167 --> 01:07:03,375
I'd rather have you
and your stacks

1429
01:07:03,458 --> 01:07:06,042
than anybody else and no stacks.

1430
01:07:06,125 --> 01:07:08,333
Thank you.

1431
01:07:08,375 --> 01:07:11,333
And so it's worth
it to have the stacks.

1432
01:07:11,417 --> 01:07:13,750
- Thank you.
- Yeah.

1433
01:07:13,833 --> 01:07:15,750
But if you did
pick up the stacks,

1434
01:07:15,833 --> 01:07:17,333
I would be fine with that.